British Armed Forces - News and Discussion

[wilmet]

Any SDR story is simply rumour until its announced as fact, so take that story with a pinch of salt.

Another rumour in the Torygraph that wouldn't shock anyone - FRES to be axed
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...ence-cuts.html

it seems that FRES SV (or whatever its called - the one replacing the CVR(T)s) is going ahead, but if they axe or delay the FRES UV I think it's one I can live with, after the upgrading of the FV430s and the purchase of hundreds of MRAPs and various other specialist vehicles in recent years. Hell, if FRES UV was going to cost £16 billion, that's almost half the forcasted budget blackhole gone already!

Do we have any reliable idea of the price difference between a B and C model F35 btw? I know about the earlier article about the SRVL research going on, but I'm thinking this is either a case of the left hand not knowing what the right is doing at the MoD, or they are keeping their options open (remember we are also researching our own type of EMALS, "EMCAT", according to an article a few months back). Oh the joy if we decided to go CATOBAR after all. Fingers crossed as ever.

Anyhoo, it's sounding like Fox and co are prepared to put up a genuine fight, not just window dressing (at least I hope).

[happyslapper]

it seems that FRES SV (or whatever its called - the one replacing the CVR(T)s) is going ahead, but if they axe or delay the FRES UV I think it's one I can live with, after the upgrading of the FV430s and the purchase of hundreds of MRAPs and various other specialist vehicles in recent years. Hell, if FRES UV was going to cost £16 billion, that's almost half the forcasted budget blackhole gone already!

That's how I read it too. FRES SV is already a considerable way along the development road, plus it's imperitive to get it in servic asap, with the Scimitar and other variants struggling against the current threats.
£16bn really puts into perspective the endless BS about saving £500m (or whatever) by axing the second CVF!

Do we have any reliable idea of the price difference between a B and C model F35 btw? I know about the earlier article about the SRVL research going on, but I'm thinking this is either a case of the left hand not knowing what the right is doing at the MoD, or they are keeping their options open (remember we are also researching our own type of EMALS, "EMCAT", according to an article a few months back). Oh the joy if we decided to go CTOL after all. Fingers crossed as ever.

I admit to most of the F-35 saga going over my head, but as I understand it the yanks are having big problems with the Dave-B too. Even with a CAS loadout (as opposed to our requirement for this mud-mover to do everything) they are having problems with the bring-back capability for the USS America class. So it stands to reason that SRVL could be as important to them as it is for us.
Given the potential savings at stake (I don't think anyone knows the actual unit costs yet), £7m quid spent on SRVL isn't that big a deal, particularly when the yanks may be picking up the bill themselves anyway.

[happyslapper]

Here's another, lengthier, article about SRVL:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ification.html

[wilmet]

That's how I read it too. FRES SV is already a considerable way along the development road, plus it's imperitive to get it in servic asap, with the Scimitar and other variants struggling against the current threats.
£16bn really puts into perspective the endless BS about saving £500m (or whatever) by axing the second CVF!

Me thinks Osbourne or Fox had made a comment about FRES SV as soon as they got in power, slamming Labour for signing up for it with the finances being what they are. I don't know if we're getting the best deal possible, but it seems pretty much set in stone.
As for the UV version, what a complete shambles. They've been talking about it since what, the 1980s? First it had to be light enough to fit in a CESNA, then it had to be harder than a tank, then it had to be wheeled, then it had to be tracked...
£16 billion for 3000 units...jesus, were they going to be gold plated? I'm all for providing great kit for the army, but come on.

I admit to most of the F-35 saga going over my head, but as I understand it the yanks are having big problems with the Dave-B too. Even with a CAS loadout (as opposed to our requirement for this mud-mover to do everything) they are having problems with the bring-back capability for the USS America class. So it stands to reason that SRVL could be as important to them as it is for us.
Given the potential savings at stake (I don't think anyone knows the actual unit costs yet), £7m quid spent on SRVL isn't that big a deal, particularly when the yanks may be picking up the bill themselves anyway.

It makes sense indeed, if I'm not mistaken everyone but the marines have given up on B in America. The more I hear about the B version, the more I think they shouldn't really have bothered with it. It seems to be dragging the program down considerably for what is going to be, arguably, the least capable version of the lot. I honnestly think I might go dance on the roof if Fox were to tell us we're getting the C version, because one can hope that if it's cheaper we may actually get enough of them for the 2 carriers (I really don't see us getting 138 of them anymore, but if we could get 90 or 100 for the navy that would already be a start).

Here's another, lengthier, article about SRVL:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ification.html

Cheers, it's an interesting read.

[happyslapper]

If one good thing comes out of this cost-cutting exercise, it has to be an end to this cataclysmic system of procurement that's been going on for decades. Only we could spend billions on something we could have gotten o.t.s for a fraction of the price, with more capability.

Anyway, I've got some figures. The latest batch of F/A-18's for the USN (part of a multi-year deal) worked out at $43m per aircraft. The Israeli deal, for the cheapest variant of F-35, worked out at $96M per aircraft. Let's for argument's sakes add a third to that for the B model, and you're looking at $128M per aircraft.
Is one F-35B really worth three Super Hornets?

[marktigger]

Well happy slapper look like not only FRES is dead in the water Type 26 is as well according to todays Telegraph

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...ence-cuts.html

[happyslapper]

Saw that reported yesterday. I think it's unlikely to be true, seeing as until a couple of days ago they were suggesting bringing forward T26 production to plug the escort gap, and sustain shipyard jobs.
If it's true though, I'm not too distressed. You might think that's strange coming from me, but the priority is the C2 requirement, not the C1 which T26 would fulfill. We need hulls urgently. I've no doubt the T26 will be an outstanding platform, and highly exportable, but we really need more hulls to sustain a global presence. If at the end of next week we're told that C1 production would dovetail C2 production/purchase*, which in turn dovetails CVF production, I'd be more than happy.

*this is one area where France and the UK can really do eachother a favour; we build a French-spec CVF with as much as possible French industrial involvement, and the French build us something like the Formidible class light frigate with as much as possible British industrial involvment.

[marktigger]

would agree totally with the need for more hulls espically with the CVF and the use of RFA's as warships. A dedicated ASW platform isn't the answer what is needed is a "Type 83" frigate a general purpose platform with open system architecture allowing a plug in and play generation of electronics and weapon systems. Though a corvette type vessel like the dutch holland class corvettes wuld be a good buy.
though the cancallation of the FRES is a set back i would sugest the wrong descision was made to buy the ASCOD. Piranah would be better.

[CMNot]

Is one F-35B really worth three Super Hornets?

I'm going to assume that's a rhetorical question?

[Corrupt]

Five days aboard HMS Talent

How long could you go without daylight, family contact, or any precise idea of where you are? A submariner on HMS Talent can do it for three months. Andrew Preston survived five days - and surfaced with a new respect for our silent service

Certainly an eye opener.

[NovocastrianUK]

Friendship Feast Marks Brigade Handover In Helmand Province

October 10, 2010

Brigadier James Chiswell MC (left) takes charge of Task Force Helmand in place of Brigadier Richard Felton OBE.

The formal transfer of authority for British military operations in Helmand province has taken place, with 16 Air Assault Brigade succeeding 4th Mechanized Brigade. From today, Brigadier James Chiswell MC takes charge of Task Force Helmand in place of Brigadier Richard Felton OBE.

Full Article: UK Forces Afghanistan

[Steak-Sauce]

U.K. Launches Final Type 45 Destroyer

By ANDREW CHUTER, LONDON
Published: 11 Oct 2010 11:00


BAE Systems has launched HMS Duncan, the sixth and final Type 45 destroyer destined for the Royal Navy. The anti-air warship will be fitted out at the company's Goven, Scotland, shipyard and is scheduled to enter service in 2014.

Weighing in at 7,500 tons, the T-45's principal anti-air systems are the MBDA-developed Sea Viper missile and BAE's Sampson active phased array multi-function radar.

The warships can operate helicopters up to the size of a Chinook and can carry about 60 Royal Marines or other troops.

Article continued @ Defense News

[NovocastrianUK]

Navy to get aircraft carriers despite defence cuts

Tuesday 12 October 2010

Senior ministers and military chiefs agree on outcome of strategic defence review after weeks of intense debate

Article: guardian.co.uk

[CMNot]

Here's hoping those in harms way don't have to carry the can for the RNs gargantuan steel lumps. Still, always prescient to prepare for a war, rather than the war. No mention of Trident, not sure of whether that is a good or bad thing. Without renewing the capability, we have the international clout of Greece until 2090 when the renegotiated order for 15 F35Cs come online.

That GCHQ recruitment is going to cost a fortune, too.

[2495]

It agreed that the RAF will lose squadrons of fast jets and bases

Hey Mick - if you are reading this, bet you bloody glad you moved from fast to rotary. Jammy bastard. lol.