Army Camo Phase IV

[seraosha]

FFS, the USMC has it right, and the Army just needs to quit screwing around. Sure, as a former Soldier it's annoying, but enough is enough.

[Alpha-17]

Because people couldn't hide during WW2, in Vietnam, etc.?
Oh, and that must be why solid colored EAGLE, HSGI, Paraclete, etc. gear works just fine for those seceret squirrell guys....

Standard OD fatuiges and alice gear worked just fine before, no matter how well camoed you are in the end it will still boil down to how you move in the terrain....

Notice that we went to camo after WWII/Vietnam/etc because camouflage works much better than a solid color. Most solid color gear I've seen with SF guys has been painted, or is multicolored anyway. Some go with solid color gear, but far from all.

As for moving, yeah, nothing works well while moving, but some work better than others. OD worked just fine back in the day, but ****, what was it being compared to? It works for Israel because they're constantly in a MOUT/Mechanized situation where camouflage doesn't matter. What are you going to notice first, the guy in OD, or the big ****ing tank he's next to? In A-stan, or other, similar places, camouflage does matter. Regardless how you're moving, when you stop, hell, I'd want a pattern that blends in, not glows in the dark. Same for gear.

[gaijinsamurai]

FFS, the USMC has it right, and the Army just needs to quit screwing around. . .

So, what's new?

[seraosha]

So, what's new?

I remember jarheads at knox trying to figure out which end of a tank to point at enemies, so I'll just let that one slide, man.

[cbreedon]

Why are they doing more testing? I thought they'd decided on Multicam?!?!?! They our wasting our money. Either used multicam or better yet like a few other people are saying use Marpat. It works too. The Marines are different but at the end of the day they are American fighting men/women like the Army, Air Force, Navy etc. Just use one uniform and quit wasting money on these studies.

[LineDoggie]

Notice that we went to camo after WWII/Vietnam/etc because camouflage works much better than a solid color. Most solid color gear I've seen with SF guys has been painted, or is multicolored anyway. Some go with solid color gear, but far from all.

As for moving, yeah, nothing works well while moving, but some work better than others. OD worked just fine back in the day, but ****, what was it being compared to? It works for Israel because they're constantly in a MOUT/Mechanized situation where camouflage doesn't matter. What are you going to notice first, the guy in OD, or the big ****ing tank he's next to? In A-stan, or other, similar places, camouflage does matter. Regardless how you're moving, when you stop, hell, I'd want a pattern that blends in, not glows in the dark. Same for gear.

Actually, during WWII we had Camo but it was found that a Soldier/Marine could be detected easier while moving wearing it. In the Armys case, the Camo Issued during Normandy was withdrawn primarily after numerous incidents of Blue on Blue as the Perception among US & Allied forces was the Germans only wore Camo. In the Pacific the Camo was adequate in campaigns such as Cape Gloucester, but in the latter campaigns of sparse open terrain, became a visual cue to dectection. ERDL developed in 1948 didnt start to be used until 1966 with 300 sets requested by USARV, in 1967 USARV requested a further 18,373 Sets.

The 1962 Ft. Benning testing ("Users review of Camouflage for the Individual Combat Soldier in the Field") showed that all uniforms blended at 500M. It concluded Movement and Sound were the primary means of detection on the Battlefield by Soldiers using visual detection techniques.

[gaijinsamurai]

I remember jarheads at knox trying to figure out which end of a tank to point at enemies, so I'll just let that one slide, man.

Hahaha! Sorry, Buddy! You know I couldn't resist.....

[James]

Last I read is that Coyote Brown gear on top of MARPAT patterns didn't do anything, because the Army had done research into that during the last test and said it was actually detriment IIRC.

I don't know what any research said, coyote brown has been very useful for me in Afghanistan. I think the fact that a lot of SF/SOF types, when they have the option, frequently choose CB. They have the experience to know what works in theatre, regardless of what Natick research says. Woodland camo is pretty effective in parts of the country, as is multi cam, plain OD green or Tan. In some places, the current ACU is very effective. Then you've got ACM who wear whatever color jammies they put on that day, sandals, and a brown wool blanket - believe me when I say they can just disappear into the terrain.

I really think the Army would be well served by going back to Woodlands and DCUs with brown boots and Ranger Green or CB gear.

[Soldat_Américain]

Here's the article so you know I'm not just huffin and puffin
http://soldiersystems.net/2010/06/25...es-camouflage/

[HGRazorR]

I'm for it, I read that article as the US Army spending money on research.

R&D is an essential part of making the US Army better than everyone else. There's always something that can be made better. Of course, this has to be balanced with reasonableness.

[Wake27]

Uh...Brown doesn't work. Accessories will most likely be made from the transition pattern.

Coyote Brown seems to work pretty well for the Marines. They did well with their stuff I think.

[G-AWZT]

ERDL developed in 1948 didnt start to be used until 1966 with 300 sets requested by USARV, in 1967 USARV requested a further 18,373 Sets.

I never knew that. ERDL is a great scheme, I wonder what pattern it was modelled after? Camo patterns are like artwork.

[sgt_G]

what scheme is ERDL? (brain is fried trying to think of it)

[G-AWZT]

what scheme is ERDL? (brain is fried trying to think of it)

It looks like a precursor to Woodland. The dark splotches appear to have a purple blue tone to them as opposed to those in Woodland which are carbon black.

[z_bumbi]

what scheme is ERDL? (brain is fried trying to think of it)

"Woodland" is a ca 20-30 % larger version of ERDL.