Libya Unrest Thread

[Wally1967]

No, it's Qaddafi.
قذافي

You English speakers have a habit of ****ouncing names wrong. Peking, Bombay, Gaza, and so on.

His name is Muʿammar al-Qaḏḏāfī, Gaddafi is the anglicised version.

Ah ok thanks.

[kalerab]

Yes and no. Rebels have not assaulted Sirt, if that´s happen it would happen with all forces located in all area from Ras Lanuf to Benghazi, that is Brega and Adjabiya, there was one report about some small group which approached Sirte and than retreated with helicopter on their back which was later reported to be shot down. Than pro-Gaddafi forces tretook village of Bin Jawad and forced rebels to retreat to Ras Lanuf where rebels repelled their attack. As for Sirte clashes between tribed were also reported, as was reported that rebels found bodies of 20 executed soldiers in Ras Lanuf barracks, as was reported that Beghazi council negotiates with Sirte tribes about peacefull surrender of city. None of this can be confirmed as we receive next to no reports from Sirte itself so saying it´s home of hard line Gaddafi supporters it´s kind of speculation. Bytheway 10 thousands celebrated in Green square? All journalist which are in Tripoli said that square was about 1/3 full and biggest figure I read was "several hundreds". And yes, it seems that no one has upper hand right now, Gaddafi is struggling to retake Zawiya and Misrata while rebels are trying to figure out how to conquer Sirte. If one manages to archieve his goal, than one side will have upper hand.

[Skutatos]

I may have missed this, but do the "rebels" have any sort of leadership or are they still just a mob?

[TheDarkSide]

there was one report about some small group which approached Sirte and than retreated with helicopter on their back which was later reported to be shot down

on 5th the rebels said they are prepering to take the city and on the 6th fightings in the near of it was reported till they retreated as they offensive failed

han pro-Gaddafi forces tretook village of Bin Jawad and forced rebels to retreat to Ras Lanuf where rebels repelled their attack

a town of 10thousend is a real city in specialy lybian estimates, bin jawad was taken befor by rebels but the loyalist forces fought them back in the night and the rebels were attacked on the retreat from the air, in ras lanuf ther were heavy fightings too, the loyalist forces failed to take the city but surounded they city, this was reported first i think by al jazeera with videos of it as they travled to the loyalist forces and talked to them

All journalist which are in Tripoli said that square was about 1/3 full and biggest figure I read was "several hundreds"

well i looked at the videos my self and ther were maybe realy thens of thousend of people by the way i looked our german news too and our channel "RTL" who has a reporter IN tripoli confirmed massive celebrations of thousend of peoples who were shoting in the air etc.

And yes, it seems that no one has upper hand right now, Gaddafi is struggling to retake Zawiya and Misrata while rebels are trying to figure out how to conquer Sirte. If one manages to archieve his goal, than one side will have upper hand.

we shall see, its a interesting situation but a miliatry victory... i think is impossible now by any side, i afraid that it might end like in somalia both sides will take as much land as possible but on some point they will reach the "status quo" if then no political unification or solution is made the country will just fall apart

any way its interesting as f***

I may have missed this, but do the "rebels" have any sort of leadership or are they still just a mob?

they have now some sort of a council in bengazi with some military and political leaders

[coltfan111]

So the rebels will have to take Sirt which is the biggest obstacle on the 600 km east west highway between Bengazi an Tripoli if they want to march on the capital. This is the impression I haev got whilst watching the news.

[Bloo]

Factbox: Libya's military: what does Gaddafi have?

http://reut.rs/gAk8KT

Strength on paper versus reality

" Most analysts believe Libya's armed forces would not be able to seriously threaten outside air forces attempting to enforce a no-fly zone, saying Gaddafi's defense capabilities probably lag behind those of Iraq's Saddam Hussein before the US-led 2003 invasion."

Numbers there seem way off. 94 MiG-25's in service? They've all been ground for years. Last I checked with Flight International Libya had 132 combat aircraft in service before the civil war: 50 MiG-23, 25 MiG-21, 12 F1, 40 Su-22, 5 Su-24.

[leloup46]

Paris has welcomed the new National Council of Libya as the new representative of the country

[leloup46]

Numbers there seem way off. 94 MiG-25's in service? They've all been ground for years. Last I checked with Flight International Libya had 132 combat aircraft in service before the civil war: 50 MiG-23, 25 MiG-21, 12 F1, 40 Su-22, 5 Su-24.

The revters figures are ON PAPER, it's explicitely indicated. There are figures here too : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_Air_Force

they give roughly 190 "fighter jets". Both surveys indicate that most planes are grounded in reality.

The link I originally indicated is no longer valid but can be found here
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp...c=Worldupdates

[kalerab]

on 5th the rebels said they are prepering to take the city and on the 6th fightings in the near of it was reported till they retreated as they offensive failed

Yes, they declared it, even rebel army commander in Beghazi declared it but journalists in Ras Lanuf failed to see any greater advance of forces to Sirte, all I found was that apparently small group approached Sirte and retreated moment Hind arrived on scene.

a town of 10thousend is a real city in specialy lybian estimates, bin jawad was taken befor by rebels but the loyalist forces fought them back in the night and the rebels were attacked on the retreat from the air, in ras lanuf ther were heavy fightings too, the loyalist forces failed to take the city but surounded they city, this was reported first i think by al jazeera with videos of it as they travled to the loyalist forces and talked to them

10 000?
http://www.fallingrain.com/world/LY/19/Bin_Jawwad.html
Bin Jawad has population of 251 inhibitants. I don´t know if it even classifies as village, more like a settlement. And in Ras Lanuf they captured airport but that was when their advance was halted.

well i looked at the videos my self and ther were maybe realy thens of thousend of people by the way i looked our german news too and our channel "RTL" who has a reporter IN tripoli confirmed massive celebrations of thousend of peoples who were shoting in the air etc.

I saw them too but I failed to see such a number of people. And yes, there were gunshots from them, what is more interesting reports still wonder about the gunfight that happened in morning.

we shall see, its a interesting situation but a miliatry victory... i think is impossible now by any side, i afraid that it might end like in somalia both sides will take as much land as possible but on some point they will reach the "status quo" if then no political unification or solution is made the country will just fall apart

any way its interesting as f***

Indeed, we shall. And I don´t think that this will end up as Somalia for two main reasons - oil and close proximity to European soil. Europe is, as always, slow but we are facing threat of massive immigration is this won´t end up soon as supplies are running of in every part of Libya and oil export has been halted. NFZ may be such thing, which would not anger Libyan population and we wouldn´t be seen as "crusaders" but rather allies and would bring Gaddafis fall as quick as possible. Also I think it´s important that European states open diplomatic talks with opposition, we have to be sure that new government won´t be hostile in any way to Europe and can manage it´s internal problems. Failed state would be a disaster.

they have now some sort of a council in bengazi with some military and political leaders

Specifically, Jallil is head of the council and Omar el-Hariri is sort of both minister of interior and defence. Defected officers are in command of newly established Libyan people´s army and as for militia, their command structure is virtually non-existent.

[Fade]

Libyan rebels beat back attack on Misrata
By Michael Georgy, *******

TRIPOLI - Libyan rebels beat back the fiercest attack so far by Moammar Gadhafi’s forces on the town of Misrata, residents told ******* on Sunday, and a doctor said at least 18 people were killed.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/20.../17350651.html

[kalerab]

23:54 @LibyaInMe tweets that there is fierce fighting between Gaddafi’s forces and revolutionaries in Sirte right now.

http://www.libyafeb17.com/

waiting for confirmation

[khukuri]

Cant believe that people here are moaning that there isnt enough good pics of fighting, this isnt facebook dammit. Fighting is obviously taking place, forces moving in and out of towns and casualties are happening every day. Just because someone decided to do something else that use their iphone when shyt hit the fan doesnt mean fighting isnt taking place..

[TheDarkSide]

10 000?
http://www.fallingrain.com/world/LY/19/Bin_Jawwad.html
Bin Jawad has population of 251 inhibitants. I don´t know if it even classifies as village, more like a settlement. And in Ras Lanuf they captured airport but that was when their advance was halted.

i think you should watch some other sources about real population, and ther were no small skirmishes but a real battle taked place with people firing from the"roftops of houses"

Ben Jawad (Arabic: بن جواد.‎ Bin Ğawād), also known as Bin Jawwād, Bin Quwad, Qaryat Wadi Bin Quwwad or Qaryat Wādī Bin Quwwād, is a town with 9,675 inhabitants in the Surt District in Libya. It is approximately half way between Benghazi and Misurata.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bin_Jawad

I saw them too but I failed to see such a number of people. And yes, there were gunshots from them, what is more interesting reports still wonder about the gunfight that happened in morning.

the speculations over battles died pretty much, ther were a lot all over the town celebrations and firing salutes from cars etc. i would not speculate here to much on a conspiracy in the moment

Indeed, we shall. And I don´t think that this will end up as Somalia for two main reasons - oil and close proximity to European soil. Europe is, as always, slow but we are facing threat of massive immigration is this won´t end up soon as supplies are running of in every part of Libya and oil export has been halted. NFZ may be such thing, which would not anger Libyan population and we wouldn´t be seen as "crusaders" but rather allies and would bring Gaddafis fall as quick as possible. Also I think it´s important that European states open diplomatic talks with opposition, we have to be sure that new government won´t be hostile in any way to Europe and can manage it´s internal problems. Failed state would be a disaster.

well im not saing it would bel ik that more like a worst case scenario, of course things could go vey much in other ways considering the oil interest of the world in this civil war in the moment

ther should not be in any way a dictation of a new political power by the western powers, then it would be a real civil war, if the west just dictates and enforces on the other part of the population a opposition leader then they would have al the rights to fight and revolt against this foreign intervention, ther is needed to be a political agreement in which a peacefull transition of power is made in a compromise so that both sides will be felling fairly threathend, if now one side dictates and enforces its will on the other side ther will be no peacfull brotherly lybia but even stronger tribalism were people hate eachother

[Fat Lazy American]

It seems after what israelis call "Pallywood" we have some serious competition in Libya.

When members of certain, uh, cultures with certain, uh, non-Western perspectives on "narratives" and "journalism" fight a war, it's like a soccer game that's 50% turf diving, 49% goal celebrations (when no goal has been scored) and 1% actual soccer.

[TheEvian100]

Cant believe that people here are moaning that there isnt enough good pics of fighting, this isnt facebook dammit. Fighting is obviously taking place, forces moving in and out of towns and casualties are happening every day. Just because someone decided to do something else that use their iphone when shyt hit the fan doesnt mean fighting isnt taking place..

Beleive it.

That "someone" is who's supposed to do its job (snap photos, report, etc.) is called "journalist" which is a profession with a certain charter and modus operandi ethics. Watching and critisizing the cr@p western (or not) journalists are circulating as representative materials lately, is fair game.

So your argument does not concern this thread. Most media have sh!tty materials to show about what's happening over there and that is a crucial fact that needs to be mentioned and stressed, at least in an open, progressive, western society.