Reply With QuotePro-governmental civilians according to Syrian gov.Originally Posted by themacedonian
Shabiha members according toSyrian Observatory for Human Rights.
Pro-governmental civilians according to Syrian gov.
Shabiha members according toSyrian Observatory for Human Rights.
C.I.A. Said to Aid in Steering Arms to Syrian Opposition
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/21/wo...s.html?_r=2&hp
rebels or protestors ........ who are we to judge.
when gun toting Islamist/jihadust fukards kill people, the dead are called Shabiha.
when Assad Soldiers and henchmen kill people, they are called unarmed peaceful protesters
Oh and calling the Syrian-Observatory group independent is quite ridiculous.
Last edited by Universals; 06-22-2012 at 09:34 AM.
The report on Ynet's site in Hebrew says these Shabiha guys were ambushed.
Given the recent massacres of Sunnis only a matter of time before this is repaid with interest. Welcome to the Middle East!
Some rebels wonder if Syrian troops’ poor use of tanks, helicopters is intentional
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012/06/2...an-troops.htmlNEAR HOMS, Syria — The Syrian military, whose advantage in heavy equipment has been emphasized repeatedly by critics of the government of President Bashar Assad, rarely uses its tanks and helicopters effectively in combat against rebel forces, a shortcoming so consistent that it raises the question of whether some pilots and troops may be intentionally missing when they target rebel positions.
Weeks of observation of Syrian military operations while traveling with rebel forces leave the impression that the Syrian army is unfamiliar with modern military tactics. It rarely engages rebel forces directly and appears instead to rely on poorly aimed and random fire to intimidate its opponents. Helicopters observed in northern and central portions of the country fly at an altitude that prevents their effective tactical employment.
On Thursday, a Syrian air force pilot, reportedly on a training mission, flew his MiG-21 jet fighter to Jordan and asked for political asylum. It was the first high-profile defection from the air force, though hundreds of soldiers have joined the rebel cause. The pilot, who was identified as Col. Hassan Hammadeh, made no public statement after his defection.
There is no way to know whether the inept use of heavy weaponry is the result of poor training, incompetence or intentional. Some rebels, however, say they believe at least some of the erratic military actions are expressions of sympathy with the rebel cause by Sunni Muslims who are serving in the country’s armed forces.
One rebel fighter who asked to be identified only as Mahmoud, who served as an air traffic controller during his mandatory military service in the early 1980s, said that most pilots are Sunnis. Assad is an Alawite, an offshoot of Shiite Islam. The anti-Assad uprising has been driven largely by anger at perceived unfair treatment of the Sunni majority by the Alawite minority.
Mahmoud said that because most pilots are Sunni, the government is wary of trusting them. He suggested that some pilots might be missing intentionally.
The Syrian military’s advantage in heavy equipment – tanks, armored personnel carriers and helicopters – has been a persistent theme of rebel sympathizers for months as they sought international agreement to impose a no-fly zone over Syria and provide weapons and ammunition to the rebels.
As recently as March, the Syrian military seemed to be able to use its better equipment to gain an advantage over the rebels, pushing them out of the Baba Amr district of Homs in February and from many other urban areas in a fierce campaign undertaken before a U.N.-brokered cease-fire was scheduled to go into effect April 12.
In the weeks since, however, rebel forces have received fresh weapons and ammunition and have established safe zones in northern and central Syria where they operate largely unimpeded by the Syrian military, whose lack of tactical knowhow is glaring, even in the face of rebel units whose own organization and coordination are poor.
The tactics employed by helicopters observed in the past few weeks are a case in point.
Identified from photographs by an experienced American attack helicopter pilot as Russian-made MI-17s, which are designed both for transporting troops and cargo and for use as an attack aircraft, the helicopters typically fly in slow circles at altitudes between 1,500 and 2,000 feet. They fire unguided rockets and guns at apparently random or nonexistent targets and do not appear to employ guided missiles.
To hit either people or a moving target, a helicopter at high altitude must either enter a diving profile, or descend to a lower altitude of 300 to 800 feet, according to the American pilot who responded to questions by email but asked to remain anonymous because he was not authorized to discuss Syrian or American military practices. The American pilot said that from altitudes above 1,000 feet, flying level, striking a moving target with rockets or guns would be a challenge, even for a pilot trained against moving targets. He doubted that Syrian pilots receive such training.
Remaining at such high altitudes does have one advantage: It puts the helicopters out of range of rebels trying to down them with rifle and machine-gun fire.
“On the first day of fighting, everyone shot at them, with Dushkas and rifles,” said Mohammed Fido, a rebel fighter who said he had participated in significant fighting two weeks ago in the city of Qusayr, near the border with Lebanon. A Dushka is a Russian-made heavy machine gun. “On the second day, some of us shot at them, others did not. By the third day, nobody bothered to shoot at the helicopters. We learned.”
The Syrian military also deployed helicopters during four of five days of heavy fighting earlier this month in the northern town of Kafer Zaita. But sustained attacks against a concentrated force of 600 or more fighters resulted in only two rebel casualties, one killed and the other wounded.
During the battle, a rebel commander named Shahm attempted to draw a helicopter away from the main rebel force by baiting it with a truck-mounted Dushka. One helicopter gave chase, pursuing the black truck into the open countryside and expending significant machine-gun fire and at least three rockets. The truck traveled about six miles to the nearby town of Khan Sheikhoun, arriving unscathed before hiding in a garage.
Syrian military use of tanks and armored personnel carriers also lacks tactical skill. Contrary to standard military doctrine, Syrian armor frequently advances into contested urban zones without the accompanying support of ground troops. This leaves the armor vulnerable to rebel gunners, equipped with rocket-propelled grenades, who fire at the tanks and then quickly retreat out of the tanks’ line of sight.
Mohammed Idris, a rebel captain who said he battled government forces for nearly a month during the February assault on the Homs neighborhood of Baba Amr, said that the tanks sometimes advanced with infantry but more often advanced alone, or shelled contested areas from a distance of several kilometers. He said that when tanks advanced alone the rebels were often able to destroy them using rocket-propelled grenades. T-72 tanks, the type predominantly used by the government, are vulnerable to RPG strikes against the turret, treads and rear engine area.
During the Kafer Zaita fighting, unaccompanied armor was repeatedly driven back by barrages of RPG fire. Two armored personnel carriers were observed parked alone in a vulnerable intersection, but they retreated before rebel fighters were able to react.
Fighters in Houla, the site of an alleged massacre on May 25, showed video they said was taken in the past week of two tanks firing shells at houses from a hill approximately half a mile outside the town. Homes in the city near the remaining government checkpoints showed significant signs of damage that appeared to be from tank cannon and machine-gun fire. But though the fighters said the shelling had killed nearly 40 people in Houla since the massacre, during that same time government forces have been driven from the town center and are now relegated to positions on the town’s periphery.
Tice, a McClatchy special correspondent, served seven years in the U.S. Marine Corps as an infantry officer. During his deployment in Afghanistan, he served for seven months as an air attack controller, guiding combat aircraft from forward positions.
The same folks that told us that Army is intentionally targeting civilians are now suggesting that they are intentionally missing rebel positions.
How did you come to that conclusion is beyond me.
What waste of an article. Identifying helicopter tactics from a photo. One has to be there.
So is protesting over now?
He was there, he was just sending photos to one pilot in order to get more info on tactic used by helis during combat. Austin Tice is in Syria and is reporting from there, he witnessed battle of Kafer Zaita first handed.
Syria Ready for 'Synchronized Pullout' - RussiaThe Syrian leadership has told Russia it is ready to withdraw its armed forces from the country's cities in parallel with the forces of the Syrian opposition, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said on Friday after a meeting with his Syrian counterpart Walid Muallem.
"Among the most important positions in our vision for the forthcoming conference on Syria is that the government forces and armed forces of the opposition should make a synchronized withdrawal of forces from towns and centers of population under control of international observers. The Syrian government has told me today they are ready to do this," Lavrov told Rossiya 24 TV.
“It’s now important that the other side gets ready for the move and that the UN mission in Syria draws up the necessary [withdrawal] plans and pursue their implementation,” Lavrov added.
Moscow also dismissed on Friday U.S. and British objections to Iran’s participation in an international conference on Syria to be held in Geneva on June 30.
“We are convinced that Iran should participate in that conference,” Lavrov said.
The United States and Britain claim that Iran cannot be invited because “it is misbehaving,” he said.
“When the Americans had to ensure additional security for their troops in Iraq and Afghanistan they had no problem talking directly to Iran,” Lavrov said, adding that it was crucial to prevent bloodshed in Syria by accepting the required makeup of conference participants.
Russia has said the conference should include all the permanent members of the UN Security Council, Syria's neighbors (Iraq, Turkey, Jordan, Lebanon), as well as key players in the region (Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Iran) and international organizations (League of Arab States, European Union).
Russia has no plans to send naval forces to Syria with soldiers on board, Lavrov said on Friday in response to recent media reports.
"No, that information is not true," Lavrov said.
On Thursday, the Russian Foreign Minister rejected recent comments by British Prime Minister David Cameron that Russia has changed its stance on Syria. Lavrov told Ekho Moskvy radio on Thursday that the comments were "inappropriate for a politician at such a high level."
Cameron, who met with Russian President Vladimir Putin at the G20 Summit in Los Cabos, Mexico, told reporters on Tuesday that "it is welcome that President Putin has been explicit that he does not want Assad remaining in charge in Syria," news agencies reported.
What Putin really told Cameron is that it was unacceptable to remove Assad, presidential aide Yury Ushakov said.
“Putin went on record as saying that [Russia] does not have any special relations with Syria but the president cannot be removed just like that – it’s not the done thing in international affairs,” Ushakov said.
UN Secretary General Kofi Annan said at a press conference in Geneva that he syupported the idea of Iran's participation in the international conference on Syria. "Iran should be part of the solution," Annan said
According to UN estimates, about 12,000 people have been killed in Syria since the beginning of a popular uprising against President Assad in March 2011.
Either way, a massacre took place. How Human Rightsy of them to just write off the victims.
The PYD (Syrian Kurdish group with links to the PKK) is not pro-Assad, they just don't want to have anything to do with a Turkish backed opposition. Infact anyone following these events closesly would know that the PYD is quite hostile to Assad but doesn't have a better alternative. The Peoples council is another name for the PYD.
http://www.rudaw.net/english/news/syria/4778.htmlClashes between the pro-PKK Democratic Union Party (PYD) and supporters of Bashar Al-Assad’s Syrian regime on a few occasions in the past few months with the latest on May 9 in Aleppo – have raised doubts over claims made by rival Kurdish groups and Turkish newspapers that the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK) cooperates with Assad. The PYD says the Assad regime is trying to drag the Kurds into a civil war with Arabs.
Dr. Harriet Allsop, an expert on Kurdish-Syrian affairs, says that the clashes began after pro-Assad members of the Baggara tribe threatened Kurds and fired bullets into the air in the market. “When news of this spread in the Kurdish community, they went to the homes of the Arabs responsible and fighting began between them. The PYD became involved at this point in support of the Kurdish groups against the Baggara. They established control over the area and set up checkpoints.”
They (PYD) prefer to watch from the sidelines and build up for when it matters. The longer this takes, the more the Kurds will benefit. Erbil (KRG) has been actively supporting Syrian Kurds and has been trying to unite the two main Kurdish groups there, the KNC and PYD. Recently the two groups met in Erbil and signed an agreement.
Syrian Kurds don't need to train anyone or anything as such. There are so many defectors in Duhok right now that can be organised into a defensive force anytime. There are over 300,000 stateless Kurds in Syria, if some ex-Peshmerga were needed in Syria, who's to say that they are not from there?ERBIL, Kurdistan Region -- The Kurdish National Council (KNC) has signed an agreement with the People’s Council that aims at increasing cooperation and eradicating arms in Syrian Kurdistan. Observers believe that the implementation of this treaty will benefit Kurdish interests in Syria.
The recent concessions the Turks gave to Anatolian Kurds is very much related to Syria.
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