Thread: Protests in Syria - Discussion Thread

  1. #5596

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    Yea, you have to look at the standard of living many who have been helped by the baath party. If you look to the western suburbs of the capital you will see vast expanses of huge very nice villas. Many have prospered under Assad and enjoy a high class of living. They fear that if the Islamist take over they will revert to a lslamic banking system while introducing draconian Islamic law. There are many a Alawite and christian that enjoy a cold beer after a hard days work and that would be removed. NO BEER and grow a beard and shave your head. This is what many fear and they are not going to let it happen. Thats not freedom either.

    You really have millions of people based on the demographics of Syria that have no choice but to back Assad and the party and the millions that do support him are of the original warrior clans along the the coast and in the fortified alawite mountain ranges. The reason the fighting is so nasty is because you have so many people who believe in what they are fighting for on both sides. There are really millions on both sides of the fence willing to fight and die for their beliefs.

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    Senior Member gresh's Avatar
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    2,300 Syrian refugees have crossed into Jordan In the last 24 hours

    Our correspondent Nisreen el-Shamayleh has reported that 2,300 Syrian refugees have crossed into Jordan In the last 24 hours alone.

    Reporting from Jordan, she said:


    This is a very sharp increase from the average of 200-400 who arrive every night and the highest in over a year.


    Sources in the Jordanian city of Ramtha expect another 2,000 people to arrive tonight. These are taken to the transit facility of Al Bashabsheh.


    The UN refugee agency, UNHCR, expects a response from the authorities regarding opening another holding facility for Syrian refugees because there it is impossible for Al Bashabsheh to accommodate these numbers.
    http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/syr...ast-24-hours-0


    Syria pummels rebels as battered city collects bodies

    (*******) - Syrian artillery pounded a northwestern town on Wednesday and areas near the ghost city of Douma, where residents recovered mutilated corpses after a rampage by militiamen loyal to President Bashar al-Assad, activists said.

    They said at least 11 people, including a six-year-old girl and an elderly man, were killed by shelling in the towns of Misraba and Rihan near Douma, and three more were shot dead.


    Video shot by opposition activists in Douma, 15 km (10 miles) north of Damascus, showed gory scenes in homes they said had been overrun by pro-Assad militiamen after army shelling forced rebel fighters to retreat at the weekend.


    The state news agency SANA made no mention of killings in the devastated city, but said utilities had been damaged and that many residents had fled to escape "terrorism".


    "These are pieces of our children we're pulling out of dumpsters ... We found these body parts and we are still looking for more. These are burned human body parts," said a man picking through an overturned garbage bin in one of the video clips.
    http://www.*******.com/article/2012/...86308R20120704

  3. #5598
    Senior Member Orocairion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Climber View Post
    lol,. for once I agree with Geolocator......this mess is a dirty mess
    I'm guessing some people think that if the islamists win, this will happen:


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    Syria's war is swallowing its young

    One in ten of those losing their lives in the fighting in Syria are children - according to the accounts of activists. They say more than two thousand people were killed by President Assad's forces in June.

    More than two hundred were children. The fighting seems unstoppable and largely unobserved by United Nations monitors. And the elderly have now joined the young in the fighting against Syrian regime troops.
    http://www.itv.com/news/2012-07-03/s...ing-its-young/

    There's a video report in the link that shows a group of FSA fighting with child soldiers. I posted some video today of captured child soldiers fighting with Shabiha. I really wish both sides would keep children as far away from the fighting as possible. Unfortunately, when a child's father is killed and all he has is his two brothers who are fighters to take care of him, these kinds of things happen. Now that both of his brothers have been killed, he has nobody to look after him but other fighters.

    Such a terrible war.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamming_Python View Post
    Why yes, that's exactly what I'm implying.
    And Saddam had the overwhelming support of his people too, amirite?

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    Quote Originally Posted by IconOfEvi View Post
    And Saddam had the overwhelming support of his people too, amirite?
    Nope, but Assad is not Saddam and I would think that he enjoys support from at least a plurality of the population, if not a majority.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamming_Python View Post
    Nope, but Assad is not Saddam and I would think that he enjoys support from at least a plurality of the population, if not a majority.

    Iraqi officials say President Saddam Hussein has won 100% backing in a referendum on whether he should rule for another seven years.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/2331951.stm

    How can you compete with that !


    (how can you "think" when there has never been a fair election or poll) ?

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    in iraq sunni is 40 % and shiite 60%, that's why the conflict is not over yet

    in syria sunni is about 80% of the population, syrian conflict would be much shorter if the west help

  9. #5604

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    We have two diametrically opposite groups. One a secular police state that is being attacked by a rebel movement heavily supported by Islamist. Both are bad but most can more or less pick which one they think is worse and indeed many Syrians hate the Islamist and what they stand for. They are not going to trade something they know and maybe have prospered under for something the likes of the Muslim brotherhood. If you are one of the 2 million Alawites or 2 million Christians you will fight to the end to prevent that. Plus even a few million of the 20 Million Sunni also very much dislike the radical tones of the Islamist.

    Its very difficult to compare Assad to Saddam. Any reasonable person including journalist who have interviewed him view Assad as a fairly even tempered, intelligent and rational person. Nothing even close to the nut jobs in Libya and Iraq. The Syrian government is not good but it see itself truly facing something that is evil and harsh while protecting many people of Syria who don't want a Islamic take over. Outside forces want nothing better becasue of their relationship with Iran to make things as bad as possible inside of Syria. I foresee this will explode and maybe take much of the middle east with it.

  10. #5605

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    **in iraq sunni is 40 % and shiite 60%, that's why the conflict is not over yet

    in syria sunni is about 80% of the population, syrian conflict would be much shorter if the west help ***



    I really disagree, There are maybe 2 million Alawites plus another almost 2 million christian who do not want the other side to win. So you have nearly 4 million people who are very well organized and much heavily armed than the other 20 million. plus you have to subtract a few million of those 20 who dont want the islamist to win also. Then you have to take into account the volunteer forces from Lebanon, Iran and Russia who are directly supporting the government.

    Then you have to consider location. The alawites are located in the mountainous coastal areas to the west for the most part. They could create their own little state about that size of Lebanon if they wish based on population metrics and the size of the area. But I really dont think that will happen. I have seen reports that the government has about 70,000 very loyal, trained and organized men and can maybe draw on another 200,000 militia and reserve troops based on that figure of 2 million alawites and 2 million christians.

    I think you are seeing the start of a major offensive by the government which is really going to knock down the FSA/rebels quite a bit.

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    The Swiss government suspended arms shipments to the United Arab Emirates on Wednesday amid a report that hand grenades made in Switzerland had found their way to Syria.
    http://www.nowlebanon.com/NewsArticl...aspx?ID=415997

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    That's interesting^ I haven't seen very many instances of the opposition using hand grenades. They tend to like their RPG-7's.


    Turkey battles Syrian forest fire (0:57)
    July 4 - Firefighters worked to contain forest fires on the border as thousands of Syrians seek medical treatment and refuge in neighboring Turkey. Deborah Gembara reports. ( Transcript )
    http://www.*******.com/video/2012/07...videoChannel=1


    Syrian Refugees in Turkey Long to Rejoin the Fight


    KILIS, Turkey — The Kilis Konaklama Tesisleri is one of a handful of refugee camps where Turkey is providing for an estimated 24,600 Syrian “guests” — including Free Syrian Army members waiting for their wounds to heal so they can return to battle the forces of President Bashar al-Assad.

    Residents encountered during a recent tour of the camp, half a kilometer from the Syrian border, questioned why the West, and the United States in particular, was not supplying them with arms to oust the Assad regime. Activists in the region have been able to move some weapons and other supplies into Syria, but apparently not on the large scale the rebels seek.

    “Where are you from? America? Did you bring any weapons?” asked a small group of Syrian men huddled in the shade drinking tea.


    A United Nations panel studying the violence said that Mr. Assad’s forces had violated human rights on “an alarming scale” during the past few months, but that the government was not the only side to have carried out summary executions.


    The wounded men wanted to tell their stories, but some declined to be photographed because they planned to return and fight again and also were worried that their statements might come back to haunt family members still in Syria.


    Mr. Assad’s forces “don’t want to kill me,” said a middle-aged man who would not give his name for security reasons, placing his hand on the shoulder of a young boy. “They want to kill our children” and snuff out future generations.


    Lawyers and activists in Syria told The New York Times last week that Mr. Assad’s forces were ramping up arrests of men and boys from towns where the armed opposition had been rooted. And this week Human Rights Watch charged that the Syrian authorities were operating an “archipelago” of torture centers around the country.


    Abu Staif, 19, one of the men in the group, had a soiled bandage on his foot. “I was in a demonstration in Tel-Arafat two weeks ago, and security shot me,” Mr. Staif said, referring to a town in Syria. “They weren’t the police, they were security forces, some in military uniforms and some in plain clothes. About 10 of us were injured.”


    His friends, he said, helped him to cross the border. His wounds were treated at a Turkish hospital and he was transferred to Kilis, though he said he did not plan to stay long. “As soon as I am healed,” he said, “I will go back to demonstrate again and to fight.”


    Nasser Abu Khaled, 55, a former restaurant owner, showed the visitors a gunshot wound in his back. “They came to my restaurant and asked me which side I was on,” he said. “I told them I wasn’t on either side, so they shot me because I refused to support Assad.”
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/05/wo...&smid=tw-share

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamming_Python View Post
    Nope, but Assad is not Saddam and I would think that he enjoys support from at least a plurality of the population, if not a majority.
    Indeed, Saddam is not Assad. However, they are both cut from the same cloth. He enjoys as much support as Saddam did. That thinking you have is only in your own head. In 2002, you would have said the same thing about Saddam. After all, he has tens of thousands of people marching for him everyday!1!!1!!! He at least has the support of a plurality of the population, amirite!?!? After all, there is no way, NO WAY a regime that can kill you or disappear you for any reason whatsoever can make you march in a protest/rally in support of the Dear Leader! Why THAT WOULD BE COMPLETELY SILLY AND NONSENSICAL! I mean ****, those letters they send are only 'instructions' on when the rally is taking place! Its not like there are any orders in there! The people show up and cheer, meaning of course he has popularity with the people! ****, look at those conveniently-brand-new flags that are being handed out a block away! Or holy ****, the people crying! Those are TEARS OF JOY I TELL YOU, DAMMIT!



    What I find difficult to grasp is how every other nation that used to have an authoritarian government understands these concepts, and yet it eludes Russians by and large.

  14. #5609
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    Quote Originally Posted by IconOfEvi View Post
    What I find difficult to grasp is how every other nation that used to have an authoritarian government understands these concepts, and yet it eludes Russians by and large.
    If you have a large country an authoritarian government is something natural for a country to be manageable. But "authoritarian" is a useless buzzword like "democratic" now. Only real things mean something.

  15. #5610
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    Quote Originally Posted by geolocator View Post
    If you have a large country an authoritarian government is something natural for a country to be manageable. But "authoritarian" is a useless buzzword like "democratic" now. Only real things mean something.
    Well more like eventually, the Soviets didn't really care if you hated the government, they knew and if you acted up, you knew you'd find yourself in the gulag eventually. No need to try to pretend they have the will of the people. Saves quite a nice amount of cash and effort really.

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