Protests in Syria - Discussion Thread

[KoTeMoRe]

No matter what tactics you`ll follow BMP-1 is extremely lighly armored. Especially when your opponet is a guerilla force inside big cities BMP-1 is almost
useless.

Unless you missed the Ivory Coast ordeal, vehicles as light as VAB´s were successfully deployed by French troops under *UN* flag with a terrible efficiency. Those VAB´s had a comparably lighter armour. The BMP anyway when used with troops is a good as anything.

There are myriads of situations when the 73mm can become handy.

Chechens were a really different story. They had far better experience and they were armed with modern ATGM. The only common in both cases was
the bad use of armored forces by both Russians and Syrians.

Anyway over 500 armored vehicles lost is impressive.

I would wager that Syrians have never been seen to use scores of armored vehicles for any push. The most I have seen in a single location is fighting order was 6. Russians committed around 200 armored vehicles and as many trucks and at least a dozen SPAAG.

[Franzuu]

Aleppo fight a journey into unknown for rural rebels

ALEPPO, Syria (*******) - The young rebel fighters' mission was clear: to rid an Aleppo neighborhood of Syrian army snipers who had infiltrated rebel lines on Saturday.
But before they had reached their target, a skirmish with government troops forced them to make a diversion, throwing the group into confusion. All 40 were from rural areas outside Aleppo, and none could find their way through the city streets.
"Wait, are we in the right place?" one rebel asked. "Weren't we supposed to turn at a mosque? Where's that mosque? Have we passed it?"
A few minutes passed as the men circled around, peeking behind buildings into alleyways to see if they recognized them, unsure where to go next.
"I guess we're coming back as martyrs today," one fighter joked darkly to his friend, who chuckled nervously in front of a ******* reporter and photographer accompanying the fighters.
Outgunned in Aleppo by President Bashar al-Assad's forces - who have stepped up their counter-offensive to retake Syria's biggest city - the mainly rural fighters are also out of their element in a city of 2.5 million where relatively few local men have joined the armed revolt.

a good read, continues here http://news.yahoo.com/aleppo-fight-j...134553172.html

[peepr]

You are not going to train a shabiha to fly a jet. It'll take months and months with many hours flying with an instructor.

For attacks in urban areas of fleet Syria are clearly the best L-39. Su-22 and SU-24 is front-line bombarder, you are better suited for other purposes. Do not forget that the fight against the power of live FSA and not army.

[KoTeMoRe]

There are also two issues we have to remember.

First are IEDs. Syria does not have any experience in disarming IEDs or even any anti-IEDs vehicles and tactics. As we´ve seen in battle of Azaz footage in photos and videos section, FSA was able to take down two T-62s with IEDs, from which one was only mobility kill and the rest of the platoon abandoned it when they realize that RPGs started flying over their heads. Their logistical lines are under constant threat of IEDs and rebels plant them in cities and towns, in ambush sites they later storm, after IED explosion, with small arms fire and RPGs.

Second is maintnance. 30 or 40 years old tanks and IFVs are costy to maintain in operational state. We can talk about SAR equipment, but there is no chance in hell than even 75 percent of it is operational. If I had to guess, that number is even lower.

But the Hizb and Iran have...

Maintenance of a T tank is way less cumbersome than their Western counterpart. And you can always canibalize other T tanks for parts. I do not really think tanker crews will be an issue. Given how poor they have been showing, I would actually say that the SA needs intelligence more than raw fire power. Them Iranians can help as well.


The mortar spotting teams have been doeing their dirty job since march. There are at least a couple of clips with accurate mortar/ artillery return fire from the SA.

[DuHasst]

Unless you missed the Ivory Coast ordeal, vehicles as light as VAB´s were successfully deployed by French troops under *UN* flag with a terrible efficiency. Those VAB´s had a comparably lighter armour. The BMP anyway when used with troops is a good as anything.

There are myriads of situations when the 73mm can become handy.

I can`t say about Ivory Coast but in Syria we have urban fighting against guerilla forces with myriads of RPG-7 and IEDs.
In such environment BMP-1 or even T-55 don`t have any chance. Especially BMP-1 is just a moving target. For God`s shake
even heavy machinegun can penetrate its side armor.

Its not BMP-1 to blame, the vehicle was develloped as a cheap battle taxi for the 60s.


I

would wager that Syrians have never been seen to use scores of armored vehicles for any push. The most I have seen in a single location is fighting order was 6. Russians committed around 200 armored vehicles and as many trucks and at least a dozen SPAAG.

That`s true however the big difference is the insurgent tactics and weaponry.

[KoTeMoRe]

I can`t say about Ivory Coast but in Syria we have urban fighting against guerilla forces with myriads of RPG-7 and IEDs.
In such environment BMP-1 or even T-55 don`t have any chance. Especially BMP-1 is just a moving target. For God`s shake
even heavy machinegun can penetrate its side armor.

Again, the issue is not the vehicle itself, but the way it is deployed. If you send your BMP buttoned up it will meet a PG-7 somewhere. If troops clear an area, establish a perimetre and have a line of sight, that BMP can effectively ruin your day. Firing that HMG is like tracers it works both ways. Gives up your spot and if dismounted needs to be hauled...hauling a DShK around good luck with that.

Those are the weapons the Syrians have. They can be put to good use, if people think about them.

Its not BMP-1 to blame, the vehicle was develloped as a cheap battle taxi for the 60s.


I

That`s true however the big difference is the insurgent tactics and weaponry.

[Franzuu]

Syria army reinforcements in place for Aleppo battle

Syria's army on Sunday completed its deployment of reinforcements to the embattled northern city of Aleppo, ready for a decisive battle, a security source told AFP.
"The war is likely to be long, because there will have to be street battles in order to get rid of the terrorists," the high-level source said, declining to be named.
"All the reinforcements have arrived and they are surrounding the city," the source said. "The army is ready to launch its offensive, but is awaiting orders."
A prominent security official told AFP on Saturday that the battle for Aleppo, Syria's economic capital in the North of the country, had not yet started in earnest, despite often heavy fighting since July 20.
He said that at least 20,000 troops were posted on the ground, while the rebels who claim to control 50 percent of the city had also sent reinforcements to Aleppo.

http://www.nowlebanon.com/NewsArticl...aspx?ID=425196

[Hisroyalhighness]

Again, the issue is not the vehicle itself, but the way it is deployed. If you send your BMP buttoned up it will meet a PG-7 somewhere. If troops clear an area, establish a perimetre and have a line of sight, that BMP can effectively ruin your day. Firing that HMG is like tracers it works both ways. Gives up your spot and if dismounted needs to be hauled...hauling a DShK around good luck with that.

Those are the weapons the Syrians have. They can be put to good use, if people think about them.

X2, One of Assad's biggest tactical errors is not sending his infantry to support his Armour, Assad should have wised up after seeing Libyan Armour torched in Benghazi.

[Camera]

X2, One of Assad's biggest tactical errors is not sending his infantry in support of his Armour, Assad should have wised up after seeing Libyan Armour torched in Benghazi.

I don't think the reason for this was an error that was made by someone, but the lack of skilled forces to operate in such environment. Syria was neglecting her conventional military build-up for long, focussing mainly on the build-up of BMs and other assymetrical capabilities. If troops are not trained, they can not have the required skills.

[KoTeMoRe]

X2, One of Assad's biggest tactical errors is not sending his infantry to support his Armour, Assad should have wised up after seeing Libyan Armour torched in Benghazi.

I think he has...most of the times armour has been ambushed mainly because of lack of prior intelligence. Civilians luring troops into killzones is nothing new. If the Syrian Army collaborates with locals, they are bound to find them selves ambushed somewhere. The main flaw of Assad was of allowing Annan and his mission. They single handedly saved the FSA in Homs and Hama by making the SA fall back and filter out as civilians. My opinion is to consider EVERY civilian on a given area if not as EC at least as potentially hostile.

Rely only on your troops and your local forces. Which are the main targets of the FSA. Local police and pro-Assad are flushed out (or simply killed) that allows to intimidate the populace and also have the upper hand on real time intelligence.

[TrenchDigger]

Syrian army bombarded Salaheddin district in Aleppo, a main stronghold of the rebels which are claiming to hold under the control of half the block. The rebels announced that they had captured 48 Iranians in Damascus, which they claim being members of the militia Shabiha.

The most important rebel stronghold in Aleppo, Salaheddin district, has been surrounded this morning, a Syrian military bombed the neighborhood repeatedly. The rebels claim to hold under the control of half of the quarter, a strong fights also in the neighborhoods Hamdanije, Sukari, Al Ansari and Zahra al Dzamijat, in the western part of town.

Special *******eur of Belgrade Politika Miroslav Lazanski is in Aleppo, sating to RTS that the Syrian army completely surrounded Aleppo and is constantly overflying with helicopter gunships. According to him, fightings in several districts are typical guerila in which there are about 15,000 armed rebels, who had recently received anti-aircraft missiles of type "Stinger".

Lazanski said that the in Aleppo they are typical guerrilla combat, while in Damascus situation is completely quiet and accurate statement of Syrian army generals to fully control the capital.

Syrian air force pilot defected to Turkey

General Ahmed Mohammed Faris, Syria's military pilot, defected to Turkey, reported the Turkish state news agency Anatolia.

According to the agency, Faris was before he defected to Turkey went to the headquarters of the Free the Syrian army in Aleppo, in solidarity with the rebels in the battle against troops loyal to the Syrian President Bashar el Assad.

Sixty-one year old Faris was the first Syrian cosmonaut. According Anatolia, was tried three times to escape from Syria since the last March began fighting in that country.

Iranians kidnapped in Damascus

Syrian rebels say they have kidnapped 48 Iranians in Damascus, accusing them of belonging to the Iranian Revolutionary Guards and warned Tehran to continue kidnapping if they continue support to Syrian regime.

In a video posted on YouTube, a man in uniform Free Syrian army officer, said that his fighters "captured 48 Sabiha (militia members) from Iran, who were in a reconnaissance mission in Damascus," while the Iranians claim to have come on pilgrimage in a Shiite place of worship.

"During interrogation, we found that some officers of the Revolutionary Guards," he said, showing a document taken from a captured Iranian man, who appeared in the background image.

In the video, a group of men sitting on the floor, while the gunmen behind them wearing old Syrian flag adopted by the Syrian rebels.

"We are warning Iran that we will beat all their targets in Syria. Fate of Iranians working in Syria will be like the fate of these - or will be dead or prisoners," said the man.

Germany against military intervention

Although the fighting in Syria, no end in sight, the West already making plans for the development of the country after the fall of Bashar el Assad.

Group for the reconstruction of the Syrian economy, founded on the proposal of Germany, says that in the first six months is necessary to prevent chaos and disillusionment of the people, and the plan quickly supply the basic necessities, which would give the government some future time to catch the momentum. Analysts, however, it seems that time is not so close.

German Defence Minister Tomas de Mezijer ruled out military intervention in Syria, after the resignation of the Special Representative of the United Nations Kofi Annan.

"Failure diplomacy should not automatically lead to the application of military force," said de Mezijer list Welt am Sonntag, adding that'' no doubt'' bitter and frustrating, if one must look at all the murders, and that without can directly do something.

This serious Prussian, whose organizational skills and boasted itself Chancellor Angela Merkel said that Germany must continue to provide humanitarian assistance and logistical support of the Syrian democratic opposition.

source:
http://www.***.rs/

[Jµµso]

More than 20,000 Syrian troops are massed around Aleppo, military sources say, as fighting rages for control of the country's second city.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-19137637

How many rebels there is in Aleppo?

[Combat-Master]

he Syrian Army announced that it has recently apprehended a Turkish general who commanded the terrorists trying to seize control of Aleppo.


According to an informed source in Syria, the Turkish general was arrested during the Syrian Army's clashes with the terrorists in Aleppo.


News reports said that the Turkish general has been taken to Damascus for further interrogations.


Earlier, Turkish media also reported that Syria has detained 40 Turkish military officers in different parts of the country, and said that efforts to release them have failed.


Turkey along with the US, Saudi Arabia and Qatar have been supporting terrorists and rebel groups in Syria and have practically brought a UN peace initiative into failure to bring President Assad's government into collapse.


Syria has been experiencing unrest since March 2011 with organized attacks by well-armed gangs against Syrian police forces and border guards being reported across the country.


Hundreds of people, including members of the security forces, have been killed, when some protest rallies turned into armed clashes.


The government blames outlaws, saboteurs, and armed terrorist groups for the deaths, stressing that the unrest is being orchestrated from abroad.


In October 2011, calm was eventually restored in the Arab state after President Assad started a reform initiative in the country, but Israel, the US and its Arab allies are seeking hard to bring the country into chaos through any possible means. Tel Aviv, Washington and some Arab capitals have been staging various plots in the hope of increasing unrests in Syria.

http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=9104252929

[kalerab]

Fars news. There is trustworthy source. Bytheway what about that French SOF team that was arrested in Homs about a 6 months ago? Nothing? Wonder of wonders.

[Territory]

speculation was denied by the turkish ministry of foreign affairs..