Protests in Syria - Discussion Thread

[themacedonian]

http://www.news.com.au/world/marie-c...fkyi-122628181

France and Britain were trying desperately to rescue injured media personnel from Homs and recover the bodies of Marie Colvin and Remi Ochlik, after it emerged the survivors may have refused an earlier rescue by a Syrian Red Crescent ambulance.

A Syrian Red Crescent ambulance arrived to transport the injured, the Sunday Times reported, but they refused to go amid fears they would be arrested after entering the country illegally. They wanted the ICRC to transport them with a diplomat present, which could not be arranged.

The Red Crescent told British and French representatives, "We did everything you asked, but your guys did not want to come. The Red Crescent saw your guys face to face and they were told no.
"It was hard to find Red Crescent volunteers willing to go into the area. They put their lives in danger."

[themacedonian]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-17168730

The Syrian government is holding a national referendum on a new constitution, amid continuing violent unrest and a boycott by the opposition.

The government has pressed ahead with organising the referendum despite the unrest, setting up more than 13,000 polling stations for 14.6m voters.
State television has been holding discussions about the new document, which allows for more opposition to Mr Assad's Baath Party, and telling people how they can vote.

[IconOfEvi]

About as legitimate as saying people vote in the PRC, or North Korea

[Camera]

Exclusive: State Department quietly warning region on Syrian WMDs


Posted By Josh Rogin


The State Department has begun coordinating with Syria's neighbors to prepare for the handling of President Bashar al-Assad's extensive weapons of mass destruction if and when his regime collapses, The Cable has learned.

This week, the State Department sent a diplomatic demarche to Syria's neighbors Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon, and Saudi Arabia, warning them about the possibility of Syria's WMDs crossing their borders and offering U.S. government help in dealing with the problem, three Obama administration officials confirmed to The Cable. For concerned parties both inside and outside the U.S. government, the demarche signifies that the United States is increasingly developing plans to deal with the dangers of a post-Assad Syria -- while simultaneously highlighting the lack of planning for how to directly bring about Assad's downfall.

CONTINUED: http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/po...on_syrian_wmds

[Flamming_Python]

It's fascinating that China can make these low accusations and get away with it.

Well, the Chinese are quite right; Europe and the US have their own dreams of empire it seems, that they are trying to pursue in the Middle East.

[Paya]

About as legitimate as saying people vote in the PRC, or North Korea

And you base this on what?

The new constitution limits presidential powers, allows for only two consecutive terms, and gives those the West insists on calling "the opposition" a chance to test their support without AK-wielding militias (the same goes for Assad). Barring the discriminatory article that precludes a non-Muslim president, the situation is virtually the same as when former Communist states introduced multi-party systems.

I see no reason for a priori hostility towards what seems to be a first in a long line of steps on the road to democracy.

[themacedonian]

And you base this on what?

The new constitution limits presidential powers, allows for only two consecutive terms, and gives those the West insists on calling "the opposition" a chance to test their support without AK-wielding militias (the same goes for Assad). Barring the discriminatory article that precludes a non-Muslim president, the situation is virtually the same as when former Communist states introduced multi-party systems.

I see no reason for a priori hostility towards what seems to be a first in a long line of steps on the road to democracy.

The opposition does not like it because the proposed constitution does not allow for Islamic or religion based parties. Basically similar to Turkey. But this is important to the opposition backers like Saudi Arabia and Qatar.
As far as the west is concerned any solution that excludes them in not a solution.

[kalerab]

And you base this on what?

The new constitution limits presidential powers, allows for only two consecutive terms, and gives those the West insists on calling "the opposition" a chance to test their support without AK-wielding militias (the same goes for Assad). Barring the discriminatory article that precludes a non-Muslim president, the situation is virtually the same as when former Communist states introduced multi-party systems.

I see no reason for a priori hostility towards what seems to be a first in a long line of steps on the road to democracy.

Officially there was multi-party system even in communist contries, they always gave few seats in Assembly to their kangaroo parties like social democratic party and such while Communist Party always had more than 90 percent of votes. Not even mentioning simple fact that regime will never, ever, ever, ever register a political party that could challenge its power, that I can tell you now that referendum will pass with at least 90 percent majority and at least 80 percent attendance. After all it´s not like sole non-regime affiliated orgnization is overseeing referendum.

[themacedonian]

Officially there was multi-party system even in communist contries, they always gave few seats in Assembly to their kangaroo parties like social democratic party and such while Communist Party always had more than 90 percent of votes. Not even mentioning simple fact that regime will never, ever, ever, ever register a political party that could challenge its power, that I can tell you now that referendum will pass with at least 90 percent majority and at least 80 percent attendance. After all it´s not like sole non-regime affiliated orgnization is overseeing referendum.

Well instead of dismissing it outright lets just see what will happen. If there is a new constitution as proposed by the opposition how different will it be?

At this very moment has the opposition presented a document or an idea of post Assad Syria? Other than the down with the dictatorship line what are they actually proposing?

[Camera]

The referendum is a farce of course like all previous votes organized by Assad.

[Universals]

The opposition does not like it because the proposed constitution does not allow for Islamic or religion based parties. Basically similar to Turkey. But this is important to the opposition backers like Saudi Arabia and Qatar.
As far as the west is concerned any solution that excludes them in not a solution.

Who cares about the opposition? they are just puns, a means to an end. Consequencies be damed. The West wants Assad out and weaken Iran's influence. Not too long ago, we kicked Saddam out only to empower Iran and fuel Shiite dominance in the region. Now we want to get rid of Assad and weaken Iran even if it means empowering Wahhabi Islamist in Syria.
KSA is instigator in chief and yet they get a pass cos they sell oil to everyone. ME is so screwed

[themacedonian]

Who cares about the opposition? they are just puns, a means to an end. Consequencies be damed. The West wants Assad out and weaken Iran's influence. Not too long ago, we kicked Saddam out only to empower Iran and fuel Shiite dominance in the region. Now we want to get rid of Assad and weaken Iran even if it means empowering Wahhabi Islamist in Syria.
KSA is instigator in chief and yet they get a pass cos they sell oil to everyone. ME is so screwed

I know. That just about sums it up.

[themacedonian]

http://www.smh.com.au/world/assad-su...226-1twcn.html

''One of the major mistakes that many of us have made is that we have underestimated the power base of Assad,'' Professor Gerges said. ''I think he has at least 30 per cent solid support.''

A report by a United Nations-appointed commission last week documented instances of the members of the opposition Free Syrian Army torturing and executing members of the mostly Alawite pro-government shabiha gangs and killing their relatives in revenge for shabiha attacks. Mr Assad also has cultivated good relationships with some tribal leaders within the Kurdish ethnic minority, and with leaders of the Druze religious group, who fear they too could be victimised under a new and more religious regime, Professor Gerges said.
Christians who have seen churches and worshippers targeted by Islamic extremists in neighbouring Iraq are also fearful that the uprising will take a fundamentalist turn. They usually side with Mr Assad because they have been safe under his rule.

[themacedonian]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...?newsfeed=true

Saudi Arabia's Sunni/Wahhabi rulers are paranoid about what they see as a threat from Shia Muslims. They are fearful not just of Iran but of the marginalised Shia communities inside their own realm and the rebellious Shia majority in Bahrain ruled over by a Sunni king. There's also Iraq on their northern border where long-suppressed Shia influence has re-emerged – thanks to George Bush – following the overthrow of Saddam Hussein.


From a Saudi perspective, getting rid of Assad will help to shift the balance back in Sunni Islam's direction. Most Syrians are Sunnis, though the regime itself is dominated by Alawites – a Shia offshoot – and closely allied to Iran. Saudi "support" for the Syrian opposition, therefore, is likely to make the conflict more sectarian rather than less.
Syrians should beware of "friends" as much as enemies.

[RSone]

Article from RNW.nl if the Netherlands should push for an intervention:
http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/du...-pros-and-cons

I don't know about this.. If there would be an intervention, proposal makes obligation. After the recent cuts, i'm not sure if the Army in particular would be up for such a deployment.