Thread: Protests in Syria - Discussion Thread

  1. #5221
    Senior Member TG211's Avatar
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    You know what too ? If the West seems so reluctant to help the opposition, despite all that's being said, isn't it because they know they may be helping today the ennemy of tomorrow ?

    I mean, France talks about sending weapons, Hillary slams Russia for "supplying attack choppers" that are refurbished, and everybody goes "Assad = Bad" (that part I agree, he's evil, no matter what), BUT did they act so far ? Did they ?

    I think they're embarassed in a position they can't turn back because of PR and saving face... "I know I'm wrong, but I must not admit to it !! I'll look stupid !"

  2. #5222
    Senior Member Hisroyalhighness's Avatar
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    Russia Denies Syria Helicopter Deliveries

    Russia is not delivering new military helicopters to Syria, the Russian Foreign Ministry's information deparment said in a statement on Friday, in response to media reports claiming Syria was getting Mi-25 helicopter gunships from Moscow."As already stated, no new deliveries are being made to Syria of Russian military helicopters," the Foreign Ministry statement said, adding "all military-technical cooperation with Syria is limited to defensive weapons."
    "As regards helicopters, there were planned overhauls of equipment supplied many years ago," the ministry said.
    The ministry statement follows a denial by Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov on Wednesday that new helicopters were being delivered.
    “We are completing right now the implementation of contracts that were signed and paid for a long time ago,” Lavrov said after talks in the Iranian capital Tehran. “We are not delivering to Syria, or anywhere else, items that could be used against peaceful demonstrators,” Lavrov added.
    The ministry's statement follows claims by US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton on Tuesday that Russia was supplying helicopters to Syria which were being used against civilians in the insurrection in that country. Clinton later clarified her statements on Thursday, acknowledging that Russia was returning used equipment to Syria.
    “Whether they are new or they are refurbished, the concern remains that they will be used for the exact same purpose that the current helicopters in Syria are being used, and that is to kill civilians,” State Department Spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said, Al Arabiya reported.
    “These are helicopters that have been out of the fight for some six months or longer. They are freshly refurbished. The question is simply what one expects them to be used for when one sees what the current fleet is doing.”
    France Offers Communications Gear to Syrian Opposition

    France is ready to supply communications equipment to the Syrian opposition and to individuals and is ready to make the shipments on its own, Foreign Ministry spokesman Bernard Valero said.
    Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius earlier said that France could follow the example of the U.S. and deliver communications gear, not weapons, to the opposition in Syria.
    The outside world needs eyewitness reports about what is happening in Syria, Valero said at a press conference in Paris.
    France plans to discuss the initiative with its European colleagues and Kofi Annan, but does not rule out providing the equipment on its own.
    Paris still needs to decide where exactly it will deliver the equipment, whether to the Syrian National Council, opposition leaders or representatives of civil society, he said.
    More than 12,000 people have been killed in Syria since the uprising against President Bashar al-Assad began in March 2011, according to UN data.

  3. #5223
    Senior Member Camera's Avatar
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    @Hisroyalhighness:

    What's the point to post the same news (for the 3rd time), saying the helicopters are not new but refurbished?

  4. #5224
    Senior Member Hisroyalhighness's Avatar
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    I don't know, I saw it on the front page and I assumed it was an update/completely new article. (Shrug)

    I'll be mindful next time.

    Moscow Denies Holding Talks Over Assad Exit

    Russia's Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov denied on Friday that Russia was conducting talks with other nations on an exit plan for Syria's embattled President Bashar al-Assad.
    Speaking in Baghdad after talks with his Iraqi opposite number, Lavrov said: "If it was really said, it was not true. Such discussions are not taking place and could not take place, because this would totally contradict our position."
    Moscow hopes the United States will not act in circumvention of the UN on the Syrian issue and that the UN Security Council “will not sanction regime change,” Lavrov said.
    The statement came after U.S. State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said on Thursday that talks between Russia and the U.S. on Assad's exit from power were possible. Similar claims were made on Friday by French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius to France Inter.
    "The Russians do not support Bashar al-Assad, they are coming to the conclusion he is a tyrant and a killer. But for them it is important who will take his (Assad's) position, in the event he loses power. Discussions are underway about this," Fabius said.
    He also said France is considering providing “means of communication” to Syrian rebels, adding, however, that France has not been supplying weapons to the Syrian opposition.
    Lavrov said Iran’s participation in an international conference on Syria was essential.
    “We believe that the invitation of all potential participants, including Iran, is absolutely necessary, if we all agree to be guided by practical considerations, the aim of mobilizing all the available resources by the international community to end violence [in Syria],” he said.
    The date and venue of the international conference on Syria is still under discussion, Lavrov said. Fabius earlier said the conference could take place in Geneva on June 30.
    British Foreign Secretary William Hague on Thursday welcomed, in principle, the Russian suggestion of an international conference on Syria, but warned that Iranian attendance at any such meeting was probably unworkable.
    Any such conference “should set out the principles of a political process in Syria, including a plan for political transition in Syria and full implementation of the Annan Plan,” Hague said during a meeting with Lavrov on the sidelines of the Heart of Asia Conference in Kabul.
    Hague asked Russia to use its full influence on the Syrian regime to ensure a peaceful resolution of the situation through a political process.
    Amnesty International has accused Syria of a “shocking escalation” in unlawful killings, torture, and arbitrary detention, and called for decisive international action to stop attacks on civilians by government forces and militias.
    According to the Britain-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, more than 12,000 people have been killed since the uprising against President Bashar al-Assad began in March 2011, most of them civilians.

  5. #5225
    Senior Member EITAN88's Avatar
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    Jordanian officials charge that Syria's president sent agents to Hashemite kingdom, say arrests prevented attacks against refugees, assassinations of former Assad soldiers

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...242913,00.html

  6. #5226
    Senior Member Hisroyalhighness's Avatar
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    It appears that a amphibious ship attached to the Black sea fleet (Maybe the Tsesar Kunikov) is due to arrive in Syria with a contingent of Marines, a safety measure to ensure the logistical and maintenance facilities in Tartus are safe,

    Десантный корабль Черноморского флота России направляются в Сирию
    Вашингтон/Москва. 15 июня. INTERFAX.RU - Россия направляет в Сирию военнослужащих для охраны военных объектов, сообщил в пятницу американскому телеканалу NBC представитель вооруженных сил США. По его словам, Москва направила корабль с небольшим контингентом военнослужащих для защиты порта и военной базы в сирийском порту Тартус.
    В свою очередь военно-дипломатический источник в Москве сообщил "Интерфаксу-АВН" в пятницу, что к берегам Сирии отправляется один из больших десантных кораблей Черноморского флота. Как уточнил собеседник агентства, на его борту находится группа морских пехотинцев Черноморского флота, которым поставлена задача в случае необходимости обеспечить защиту инфраструктуры пункта материально-технического обеспечения ВМФ России, который расположен в сирийском порту Тартус.
    http://interfax.ru/politics/news.asp?id=250795


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    Quote Originally Posted by Hisroyalhighness View Post
    It appears that a amphibious ship attached to the Black sea fleet (Maybe the Tsesar Kunikov) is due to arrive in Syria with a contingent of Marines, in case the logistical facilities of the Russian Fleet is threatened.

    Десантный корабль Черноморского флота России направляются в Сирию

    http://interfax.ru/politics/news.asp?id=250795

    Only source in English I have managed to find...

    US official: Russia sends troops to Syria as peace hopes fade

    http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news...opes-fade?lite

  8. #5228
    Senior Member Hisroyalhighness's Avatar
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    The article covers that, the Marines are there just in case the base itself is directly threatened, nothing else.

  9. #5229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hisroyalhighness View Post
    The article covers that, the Marines are there just in case the base itself is directly threatened, nothing else.
    Any talk of evacuating Russian nationals?

  10. #5230
    Senior Member Hisroyalhighness's Avatar
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    There were talks about evacuating Russian Citizens when the tanker Iman visited Syria back in March, but now, nothing.

  11. #5231
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    France to provide communcations equipment to the rebels:

    French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius said his country still supported the UN-backed peace plan brokered by international envoy Kofi Annan.
    "But we are also considering - and the Americans have done this - not giving weapons but providing communications equipment so that a stronger revolt develops among the population," said Fabius.

    His spokesman appeared to play down the comments, saying it was important for Syrians to have communications tools so they could be warned if tanks were heading toward their cities, but adding no decision had been taken yet.

    http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=274002

  12. #5232
    Senior Member Camera's Avatar
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    An excellent report about Syria's CW:


    Security and Defense: Chemically unstable

    By YAAKOV KATZ
    06/14/2012 22:50

    Syria’s chemical weapons program has been focus of Israeli intelligence operations since the mid-1970s.

    http://www.jpost.com/Features/FrontL...aspx?id=273925

  13. #5233
    Senior Member Camera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy_UA View Post
    This Fabius is a clown from day one. maybe he should apply for Cirque de Soleil?

    When Layrent Fabius was already the Prime Minister of France under President Mitterand in 1984, Putin was still a junior officer in the KGB. (And you were not even born yet to have an opinion on his "day one" in Hôtel Matignon.)
    Last edited by Camera; 06-15-2012 at 04:57 PM.

  14. #5234
    Senior Member gresh's Avatar
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    Syria: ****** Assault in DetentionSecurity Forces Also Attacked Women and Girls in Raids on Homes

    (New York) – Syrian government forces have used ****** violence to torture men, women, and boys detained during the current conflict. Witnesses and victims also told Human Rights Watch that soldiers and pro-government armed militias have ******ly abused women and girls as young as 12 during home raids and military sweeps of residential areas.

    Human Rights Watch interviewed 10 former detainees, including two women, who described being ******ly abused or witnessing ****** abuse in detention, including rape, penetration with objects, ****** groping, prolonged forced nudity, and electroshock and beatings to genitalia.Many of the former detainees told Human Rights Watch that they were imprisoned because of their political activism, including for attending protests. In other cases, the reason for the detention was unclear but detainees suffered the same abusive tactics.


    “Syrian security forces have used ****** violence to humiliate and degrade detainees with complete impunity,” said Sarah Leah Whitson, Middle East director at Human Rights Watch. “The assaults are not limited to detention facilities – government forces and pro-government shabiha militia members have also ******ly assaulted women and girls during home raids and residential sweeps.”
    http://www.hrw.org/news/2012/06/15/s...ault-detention

  15. #5235
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    Quote Originally Posted by TG211 View Post
    I think they're embarassed in a position they can't turn back because of PR and saving face... "I know I'm wrong, but I must not admit to it !! I'll look stupid !"
    If a politician isn't talking and making noise he isn't relevant or "working". Very important to be heard, even if it's epic retardation.
    No one wants to hear about complex situations, and by God there will be a bogeyman we can all rant against.
    Such is the reality of political life.

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