Protests in Syria - Discussion Thread

[Sashko]

Wrong. Not everything is for sale. There are things that money cannot buy regardless of the sums involved. For some it is country, for some it is religion, for some it is family. How much would you sell your children for? If the answer is "for nothing," why would it be hard for you to agree that others may have other things they’ll not be willing to sell for anything?

I should've specified family being the only threshold. But that is from our Western middle class perspective. In Afghanistan for example they are happy to trade children for livestock.

Religion, patriotism and flag, being the artificial social constructs that they are, do have the price. Whether it is 10 bucks or a billion depends on a person and their position in the food chain.

[Surenas]

If true, kudos for the SAA making an effort to limit civilian casualties.

And a way for Iran to make its missiles 'battle-proof. I'm wondering if Syria possesses the new generation of the Fateh-110 missiles. A report from 2008 claimed Iranian assistance in manufacturing this new missile. More info here:

http://missilethreat.com/missiles/fateh-a-110/

[kalerab]

Going back to the kidnapping of Engel again, I read something on the Angry Arab's blog (Yeah I know, it's a blog but it's quite a well established one) that showed Engel being interviewed by none other than Khaled Abu Saleh, a guy who is notorious for making fake videos of Syrian Army crimes, he himself appearing as a corpse in one video, a rebel in another and appearing at the scene of "pipeline bombed by Assad army" minutes after (another video shows rebels deliberately blowing that up beforehand).

Here's the video, judge for yourself;

Some other things;

1) They were allegedly abducted in an FSA outpost, right by the Turkish border (the Shabiha must have stealth technology to avoid detection!)
2) They were freed not by the FSA but by Ahrar al-Sham.
3) Graffiti sprayed on the walls of the building they were filmed in under captivity is freshly made and appears forced, as if being part of a setup ("Assad, or we burn the whole country!" allegedly used as a slogan from anyone being pro-Assad)

I don't propose to know exactly what went down, since there's so much propaganda from both sides but there's definately some relevant oddities in the story so I thought it to be a relevant point of discussion...

Oh, Jesus. Engel himself numerous times confirmed what happened. Also it was said quite in the beginning that they were freed by Ahrar al-Sham (they even released a video with him and his team shorty after they freed him) and from Shabiha which executed one of the rebel guides right before his eyes. Also it was not right by the Turkish border and not at outpost. Stop reading blogs which claim to know more about abduction of Engel than Engel himself.

[kalerab]

Two more Syrian generals defect to Turkey

Two Syrian air force generals have defected from the regime of President Bashar al-Assad and joined opposition forces in Turkey, a diplomat said on Friday.

The generals, commanders of the Regional Air Force, have crossed the border and arrived in the town of Reylanli in southern Turkey, the Turkish diplomat told AFP on condition of anonymity.

The generals and dozens of lower-ranking officers and their families were taken to a separate camp where army defectors take refuge.

https://now.mmedia.me/lb/en/nowsyria...ect_to_turkey_

Syrian rebels step up siege of northern airbase

BEIRUT (AP) - Syrian rebels stepped up their siege of a military base in north of the country Friday as government warplanes bombed surrounding areas to support the defenders, activists said.

The fighting around Mannagh airbase near the Turkish border came as foreign ministry officials in Ankara said two Syrian air force generals had defected and crossed the border.

Rebels have been advancing in different areas in northern Syria, capturing several bases in and around the embattled city of Aleppo in recent weeks.

"The fighting did not stop all night around Mannagh airport," said Aleppo-based activist Mohammed Saeed. He added that Syrian military warplanes bombed rebel positions around the camp in an attempt to take the pressure off the base.

The Britain-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said rebels reached the edge of the air base late Thursday and that heavy fighting continued into Friday.

The Observatory and Saeed also reported heavy clashes between troops and rebels in an around the Palestinian refugee camp of Handarat in Aleppo, Syria's largest city and commercial center, which opposition fighters have been trying for six months to capture.

http://www.greatfallstribune.com/usa...rticle/1795899

[OrangeWolf]

Back from Christmas, it seems I have a few pages to read.

I think I understand that, couldn't bark as in couldn't speak the mind without being oppressed? Such a thing reminds me of the folk tale of the frog and the scorpion...

Even if you are well-treated, you want to be able to be free in mind and opinion.

[Vorph]

Oh, Jesus. Engel himself numerous times confirmed what happened. Also it was said quite in the beginning that they were freed by Ahrar al-Sham (they even released a video with him and his team shorty after they freed him) and from Shabiha which executed one of the rebel guides right before his eyes. Also it was not right by the Turkish border and not at outpost. Stop reading blogs which claim to know more about abduction of Engel than Engel himself.

I'm not for a minute saying that he was part of a setup, rather he could have been duped himself. It's not exactly far fetched for the opposition to stage something like this and what about Khaled Abu Saleh? Why is that idiot interviewing him? Something is off...

Even if you are well-treated, you want to be able to be free in mind and opinion.

Yup, thought as much!

[OrangeWolf]

Syrian rebels sidetracked by scramble for spoils of war
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012...ble-spoils-war

Some points mentioned in the article:
- Rebel commanders who hold "liberated" neighborhoods resort to looting, even at the expense of combat abilities and unity.
- Rebel fighters needed at the front were sometimes not there because they were looting.
- There is no unified police force, which means rebel commanders police their "liberated areas" as the see fit. This has also led to kidnapping for ransom and more looting.
- Part of the looting is described as revenge of the peasantry against the Aleppine merchants.
- Coordination is not very smooth: a well-armed group with tanks and artillery pieces may not feel the need to use these to aid other rebel groups. Personally I find this attitude very typical for the region.

[Surenas]

Syrian rebels sidetracked by scramble for spoils of war
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012...ble-spoils-war

Some points mentioned in the article:
- Rebel commanders who hold "liberated" neighborhoods resort to looting, even at the expense of combat abilities and unity.
- Rebel fighters needed at the front were sometimes not there because they were looting.
- There is no unified police force, which means rebel commanders police their "liberated areas" as the see fit. This has also led to kidnapping for ransom and more looting.
- Part of the looting is described as revenge of the peasantry against the Aleppine merchants.
- Coordination is not very smooth: a well-armed group with tanks and artillery pieces may not feel the need to use these to aid other rebel groups. Personally I find this attitude very typical for the region.

Already posted and discussed, but since you're back from Christmas, we forgive you.

[OrangeWolf]

Already posted and discussed, but since you're back from Christmas, we forgive you.

Oh yeah, I found it. My bad, oh well at least I had an enjoyable Christmas with my better half.

[kalerab]

I'm not for a minute saying that he was part of a setup, rather he could have been duped himself. It's not exactly far fetched for the opposition to stage something like this and what about Khaled Abu Saleh? Why is that idiot interviewing him? Something is off...

Nothing is off, he was abducted by militia just this time not sunni one. And it is far-fetched to believe that we have three groups of rebels
1, group A - guides which get slaughtered by group B
2, group B - which abducts them and than gets slaughtered by group C
3, group C - Ahrar al-Sham
I mean being killed by their own for 10 minutes of air-space and few articles on page 10 is not exactly the best way to enter paradise in any jihadi head. As for Khaled Abu Saleh, why not? He knows guys from both FSA and Ahrar al-Sham, may have very well just made an interview and GTFO. I rather asked you if he was holding gun to his head, how come that Engel never changed his version after what he arrived to States?

[jokuvaan]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...f7b_story.html

Civilian efforts to provide governance and medical care and bring lawless and extremist elements to heel have been hamstrung by lack of resources. Brig. Gen. Adib al-Shallaf, a defector from Syrian security forces, has plans to reestablish a civilian police force for Aleppo. But some weeks he is not able to regularly feed his recruits, much less buy them uniforms.

[yves]

According to oppo sources a massacre is going on now in deir baalba in homs wich was retaken today by the shabiha

[Arbody]

According to oppo sources a massacre is going on now in deir baalba in homs wich was retaken today by the shabiha

So they droped guns and running away? Sounds good to me.

[yves]

So they droped guns and running away? Sounds good to me.

Rebels ran out of ammo today and finally the assadi troops entered the neighbourhood btw according to the activist families got slaughtered but i think that the turning point has come in homs province : this is the sectarian war now there and this massacre will just put more oil in the fire and if i am an alawi i would pray god that assad win this war because if not i think thzt would mean the end of alawi presence in homs ...

[SiEMpre_Leal]

Rebels ran out of ammo today and finally the assadi troops entered the neighbourhood btw according to the activist families got slaughtered but i think that the turning point has come in homs province : this is the sectarian war now there and this massacre will just put more oil in the fire and if i am an alawi i would pray god that assad win this war because if not i think thzt would mean the end of alawi presence in homs ...

Link please....