Reply With QuoteNot entirely true it seems. http://www.lenta.ru/news/2011/11/24/modernize/Originally Posted by artjomh
Hmm Khathi has a point, and anyway I wonder how much can be squeezed out of the Kilo design.
Not entirely true it seems. http://www.lenta.ru/news/2011/11/24/modernize/
Seems like Izvestia again made it up , according to Rubin the next 2 677 will be of the modernised type. Perhaps the 677M type ?
http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20111124/496875886.html
MOSCOW, November 24 - RIA Novosti. Diesel-electric submarines of Project 677 "Lada" will modernize the technical refinement of the project will be completed in 2013, told RIA Novosti on Thursday, general manager of the Central Design Bureau for Marine Engineering "Rubin" (project developer) Andrew Djachkov.
He was commenting on reports by some media that the test boats of this project have been frozen.
"Ruby" is working on finalizing the technical design (subs - Ed.) According to the experience of exploitation on the tests, "St. Petersburg" (head boat series). This project will be completed in 2013, "- said Djachkov.
He said that the submarine "Saint Petersburg" is in trial operation of the fleet. "While the ship handles tasks in the Baltic Sea," - said the CEO.
As reported by RIA Novosti senior General Staff of the Navy of Russia, second and third boats of this project - "Kronstadt" and "Sevastopol" - will be completed taking into account the already developed modernized version based on a series of 677 after 2013.
A series of Russian diesel-electric submarines of Project 677 is designed chief designer Yuri Kormilitsin. Feature of the series is a combination of small size and low noise level with a powerful torpedoes and torpedo-missile weapons.
The boats are designed to destroy submarines, surface ships and vessels of the enemy, protect naval bases, sea coast and sea lanes, conduct reconnaissance. Series is a development project 877 "halibut." Displacement of the ship is 1765 tons, the maximum depth - 350 meters, speed - 21 knots, the crew - 36 people, autonomy - 45 days, armed with torpedoes and missiles, torpedoes, and air defense systems "Igla-1M."
I think the modernised 677 will have AIP system , there was a report i posted some time back where a new type of AIP using Fuel Cells but not using Hydrogen was under development.
It will give a boost to its chances in Indian Tender for 6 AIP equipped Submarine under P-75I program.
here it is new type of AIP
http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20110913/436639922.html
MOSCOW, September 13 - RIA Novosti. Central Design Bureau for Marine Engineering (CDB ME) "Ruby" spends bench tests airindependent power plant (VNEU) with electrochemical generator for submarines, told RIA Novosti on Tuesday, General Director of CDB ME "Rubin" Andrew Djachkov.
Earlier, a senior Russian Navy chief of staff told RIA Novosti that Russia intends to build a boat in the future with a radically new power plant. Now all Russian NNS work on diesel engines.
"In order to meet the requirements of modern foreign markets, CDB ME" Rubin "airindependent power plant designs. Now is working off of the bench of the sample set of this type," - said the source.
Deacons explained the principle of such a facility: hydrogen directly on board the submarine going through processing of diesel fuel.
He noted that in the process of creating VNEU each country where the non-nuclear submarines are built, and went his way. Thus, the basis of the German steel electrochemical generator installation and intermetallic hydrogen storage. The Swedes took the path of a plant based on Stirling engine. And the French have created their own set MESMA (Module d'Energie Sous-Marine Autonome) on the basis of the turbine in a closed cycle, which uses ethanol and liquid oxygen.
"Analyzing the status of work on this topic, we have the following conclusion: VNEU must not only ensure long finding the boat submerged, but keep enough reserve and be safe", - said CDB ME "Rubin".
According to him, the German version is not secure at least because it is based on storing hydrogen on board the boat, and it is very inflammable and explosive. The road that the French and Swedes prefer, also has a drawback. "As part of the installation there are mechanical parts, which are an additional source of noise. But the submarine has to be, above all, a secretive," - said Djachkov.
As a result, "Ruby," he said, its direction of motion of selected electrochemical generator.
"In this case there are no moving parts, which is good in terms of stealth. In contrast to the German version, we avoid storing hydrogen on board, because it requires a coastal infrastructure and complex systems on the ship," - said Djachkov.
He reported that VNEU will be installed in modular bay boat. It does not require significant rework and redesign the whole boat in general, the difference will be in the box of additional cover.
In addition, said Dyachkov, recently customers keen interest in the lithium-ion batteries.
"Offered to the market lithium-ion batteries allow you to extend the time for finding the boat under water at least 1.4 times, but the potential is very technical idea used so far only by 35-40%," - said the source.
According to him, "Rubin" is now working to improve lithium-ion batteries to increase capacity and, consequently, the time spent under water diesel submarine. "This is a very promising direction," - said Djachkov.
He also said that France and Germany also began to develop and create new projects without VNEU submarines. We are talking about the French and German project Andrasta project 210mod.
Well, Russian engineering school hates using stored hydrogen with a passion, as it's very instable, flammable and is generally horrendously complex and difficult to work with. So I very much doubt that any Russian-made AIP system would use it — at best, the hydrogen will be used only as an intermediate in some process. And there ARE fuel cells that don't use hydrogen at all — they are generally less efficient, but they have the advantage of not using hydrogen.
PS: Indeed, Dyachkov's words confirm my thoughts.
PSS: And, as usual, another load of bull from Izvestiya...
p'tit question regarding new Russian subs.
1. In Wikipedia (ok ok i know not the best source but still) - 636/877 max depths looks like 300m German 212 700m - is this erroneous data or ?
2. in militaryphotos/Russian army I was discussing with Radnen (big back catabout projects of unmanned subs in Russia, did you hear about any? he didn't yet ;(
3.Is any road-map for developing new torpedos for Russian subs? new sub-anit-air missiles (polyphen in Germany) or small caliber guns (again Mauser recoiled gun in Germany)?
Last edited by GunshipDemocracy; 11-24-2011 at 11:24 AM.
"Modernized 677M"? LOL
Let me translate that for you, folks: "We ****ed up badly, but give us some more money and we'll fix everything. PROMISE!"
We discussed Kilo dive depth here: http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums...th#post5694361
Artjomh, is the taifun any good? In my eyes it looks like a pretty awesome piece of kit, especially when compared to the good ol' Kamaz, but is is really?
I have no clue.
Ahahaha man that made me laugh xD
I guess we'll have to see then
So according to the Kilo Depth gauge that artjomh posted , the Never Exceed Depth is 300 m marked in red and the crush depth is 400 m ?
700m for the 212 is almost definitely wrong. That would put it up with even the Alfa and Papa submarines, which were made with titanium and are the deepest diving military subs in the world.p'tit question regarding new Russian subs.
1. In Wikipedia (ok ok i know not the best source but still) - 636/877 max depths looks like 300m German 212 700m - is this erroneous data or ?
2. in militaryphotos/Russian army I was discussing with Radnen (big back cat
3.Is any road-map for developing new torpedos for Russian subs? new sub-anit-air missiles (polyphen in Germany) or small caliber guns (again Mauser recoiled gun in Germany)?
212 has a diving depth of 300 - 350 m same as any conventional sub of this generation
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/U-Boot-Klasse_212_A
Tauchtiefe mind. 400 m, service depth
Zerstörungstauchtiefe ca. 700 m. crash depth
That's the reason for my question. Why such difference with Russian subs? Maybe "Ruskies" are better in keeping secrets?
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