Thread: Russian Armed Forces News & Discussion thread

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    Quote Originally Posted by memfisa View Post
    Please refer to the UUM-44, and its cancelled sucessor UUM-125.
    Most certainly it proves that you can build a rocket powered torpedo with decent effective range beyond the maximum range of current torpedoes.

    Hope the Russian do not give up on rocket propelled torpedo , as it can be very effective against surface ship or arm it with tactical nukes and you can take out submarine at long ranges.

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    Quote Originally Posted by julesak View Post
    And what about TEST-71/76 series of torpedos? Are they(or some newer version of them) still in use?
    AFAIK, they are still in use, but probably not produced anymore. New modifications like TEST-71ME-NK are still offered on export, but so far the only success was with China, who ordered a small batch, apparently for evaluation. It's probably not a very good torpedo anyway, as it still uses a late 60es era "Keramika" homing head; whatever you do, you can only upgrade it so much.

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    Russia launches MALE-class UAV Project

    Denis Fedutinov

    Moscow Defense Brief

    In the autumn of 2011 the Russian MoD announced R&D contracts for two relatively heavy unmanned aerial vehicles, with an approximate take-off weight 800kg and 4,500 kg.

    Recognizing the need

    The United States is the world leader in MALE-class (Medium Altitude, High Endurance) UAVs. It has been developing the Predator family of drones since the early 1990s. Early models saw their first action during the war in Yugoslavia, which highlighted the practical uses of the UAVs of that class, and stimulated further research and development. The second war in Iraq and the campaign in Afghanistan saw routine and wide-spread use of the Predator and Reaper drones. In addition to providing continuous aerial reconnaissance and target tracking, they have been used to launch missiles against targets on the ground, killing a number of key Al Qaeda operatives.

    Russia has several obvious uses for MALE-class UAVs; many of them have to do with the sheer size of the country’s territory. The prospective users include the armed forces and several other uniformed agencies, especially the Border Service and the Coastguard.

    Import or indigenous design?

    The world’s most capable armed forces either operate MALE-class drones already or are studying how best to acquire them. Some countries pursue indigenous projects (sometimes in cooperation with foreign partners); others buy their UAVs abroad; several nations do both.

    Apart from the United States, only Israel now makes its own MALE-class drones. The Israeli product range includes the Heron and Eitan (Heron TP) systems made by Israel Aerospace Industries. A recent addition to the Israeli product range is the Heron 900, made by Elbit systems. Italy buys Predators from the United States. Germany and France operate specially adapted Heron models. The UAE, India, South Africa, China and several other countries are developing MALE-class UAVs, either independently or in cooperation with foreign partners such as Britain and France.

    Russia has long pursued a policy of developing and manufacturing all its weapons on its own. In recent years, however, it has come to realize that such an approach is no longer viable. Russian defense technology is increasingly lagging behind the foreign competition in a number of key areas. In addition, the Russian defense industry is often unable to deliver the new weapons ordered by the armed forces quickly enough or in sufficient volume. UAVs is one area where the technological gap has become especially obvious. To address the situation, in 2009 the Russian MoD placed an order for a batch of Israeli drones, including the Bird Eye 400 (mini-class) and the Searcher MkII (tactical class, which is closer to MALE). The drones were delivered in 2010, and the training of their operators was completed in 2011.

    But the Russian army still doesn’t have any MALE-class drones. Buying them from the United States is out of the question owing to American export restrictions, and Israel has refused to sell, reportedly after coming under American pressure.

    Contracts


    The Russian MoD has announced contracts for two UAV R&D projects. The first contract, worth about 2bn roubles, is for the smaller of the two drones; the winner must deliver a product ready for mass production.

    The second contract, worth about 1bn roubles, is for the larger of the two drones; it is expected to deliver a working prototype.

    The winners and losers

    Several Russian companies submitted their bids. Three companies were in the running for the contract to build the smaller UAV: Tupolev, which is part of the United Aircraft Corporation (OAK); Luch Design Bureau, a Rybinsk-based branch of the Vega concern; and the Tranzas company from St. Petersburg.

    Luch Design Bureau is the only company which already had an existing prototype when it submitted the bid. The vehicle, also called Luch, is based on Sigma-5, a small trainer aircraft for rookie pilots designed by the Sigma-TS company from Zhukovo, Moscow Region. Experts believe, however, that using a piloted aircraft as a UAV platform is not the best solution, even though this has already been tried in other countries. To make matters worse for Luch, its parent company, the Vega concern, it not held in very high regard in the MoD. Some time ago Vega was designated as Russia’s main developer of UAVs, but failed to live up to the generals’ expectations. Its designs have repeatedly come under criticism from Vladimir Popovkin, a former first deputy defense minister. One of the Vega products, the Tipchak tactical UAV, turned out to be a big disappointment during the 2008 conflict in Georgia, especially when measured against Israeli-made drones used by the Georgians.

    Another bidder for the first UAV contract, Tupolev, is one of the founders of the Russian school of UAV design. Its first drones date back to the 1950s, but most of the Tupolev designs are extremely dated. The company is also struggling financially. In the absence of large new orders Tupolev’s R&D capability has seen a rapid deterioration. It is also finding it difficult to attract and retain the design and engineering expertise.

    The contract for the smaller UAV has therefore been awarded to Tranzas. Its high-tech designs, well-known both in Russia and abroad, focus mainly on simulator systems. It also has experience in developing tactical UAVs.

    The second MoD contract, for the larger of th]e two UAVs, attracted two bidders: Sokol Design Bureau (Kazan), and RSK MiG.

    MiG has developed dozens of combat aircraft over the decades, most of them fighters and interceptors. It also has some experience in designing UAVs, although most of those designs date back to the past century. Its most recent UAV design, the Skat attack drone, was demonstrated at the MAKS-2007 airshow, but it appears that the project has never been completed.

    For these reasons the MoD awarded the second contract to Sokol. The company is one of Russia’s leading developers and suppliers of aerial targets. It also has several active drone projects. In addition to its prior experience with UAVs, one of Sokol’s main advantages is that the company is relatively compact, which makes it a more nimble and effective operator in the new post-Soviet economic environment. The company also has its own manufacturing facilities.

    Outlook

    The winners, Tranzas and Sokol, have announced that they are going to work on the two projects together. Sokol will probably focus on designing the airframe and on the subsequent mass production, while Tranzas will integrate the avionics and design the ground control stations for the two UAVs. Both projects will be led by Nikolay Dolzhenkov, a prominent Russian aircraft designer. He was the lead designer of the Pchela UAV, which is used in the Stroy-P, a regiment-level tactical aerial reconnaissance system. His other designs include the Yak-130 combat trainer.

    It is not yet clear which design and engineering solutions will be used in the two UAVs. Some information will probably appear in the run-up to the MAKS-2013 airshow. It has been reported that both UAVs are expected to take to the air in 2014 and enter a flight test program in 2015.

    Conclusion

    Russia’s decision to design MALE-class UAVs independently has its upsides and downsides. On the one hand, the project will be expensive. It is for a good reason that several European countries have decided to pool their efforts in this area. On the other hand, independent projects provide for greater flexibility and impose fewer restrictions on any subsequent exports. Rosoboronexport already has a lot of foreign customers. Integrating UAVs into the existing Russian reconnaissance and weapons systems would make them significantly more attractive for international buyers.

  4. #2644
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khathi View Post
    AFAIK, they are still in use, but probably not produced anymore. New modifications like TEST-71ME-NK are still offered on export, but so far the only success was with China, who ordered a small batch, apparently for evaluation. It's probably not a very good torpedo anyway, as it still uses a late 60es era "Keramika" homing head; whatever you do, you can only upgrade it so much.
    and one more question from for me do Russian subs carry for sake of ASW or anti torpedo defense torpedoes like APR-3E?
    http://eng.ktrv.ru/production_eng/323/512/521/


    Many Thanks in Advance !

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    Quote Originally Posted by AustinJ View Post
    Is there any Rocket-Torpedoes that can be fired from 533 mm TT right now or is this something of a future project ?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3M-54_Klub

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    Quote Originally Posted by artjomh View Post
    Actually that Klub system carries a smaller 350 mm torpedoes , the SS-N-16 carried a 533 mm torpedo , bigger torpedo is always better , bigger sonars and longer endurance and more space for electronics

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    Quote Originally Posted by AustinJ View Post
    Actually that Klub system carries a smaller 350 mm torpedoes , the SS-N-16 carried a 533 mm torpedo , bigger torpedo is always better , bigger sonars and longer endurance and more space for electronics
    The Klub missile is a key weapon for the Kilo submarine. Weighing two tons, and fired from a 533mm (21 inch) torpedo tube, the 3M54 has a 440 pound warhead. The anti-ship version has a range of 300 kilometers, and speeds up to 3,000 kilometers an hour during its last minute or so of flight. There is also an air launched and ship launched version. A land attack version does away with the high speed final approach feature, and has an 880 pound warhead.
    http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/hts.../20100414.aspx

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    Quote Originally Posted by AustinJ View Post
    Actually that Klub system carries a smaller 350 mm torpedoes
    You asked which rocket-torpedoes can be fired from 533 mm tubes. Both 91R1 and 91R2 are 533 mm in diameter. Although the torpedo heads are 350 and 324 mm respectively (APR-3M and MPT-1UM), that's not what you asked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by artjomh View Post
    You asked which rocket-torpedoes can be fired from 533 mm tubes. Both 91R1 and 91R2 are 533 mm in diameter. Although the torpedo heads are 350 and 324 mm respectively (APR-3M and MPT-1UM), that's not what you asked.
    Ok fine with me , any details or link to MPT-1 UM torpedo ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AustinJ View Post
    Ok fine with me , any details or link to MPT-1 UM torpedo ?
    It is, essentially, an improved copy of Mk 46 torpedo.

    http://military.tomsk.ru/blog/topic-464.html

    The only Soviet rocket-torpedo which used 533 mm torpedoes was RPK-2 Vyuga (SS-N-15). Every other system used smaller torpedoes, either UMGT (400 mm) or APR-1/2/3 (350 mm).

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    Quote Originally Posted by AustinJ View Post
    Actually that Klub system carries a smaller 350 mm torpedoes , the SS-N-16 carried a 533 mm torpedo , bigger torpedo is always better , bigger sonars and longer endurance and more space for electronics
    Nope. Both wersions of SS-N-16 (533 mm and 650 mm) carried the same 350 mm (or even 324 mm) torpedo, IIRC an earlier version of MPT-1, which is an improved copy of Mk.46.

  12. #2652
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khathi View Post
    Nope. Both wersions of SS-N-16 (533 mm and 650 mm) carried the same 350 mm (or even 324 mm) torpedo, IIRC an earlier version of MPT-1, which is an improved copy of Mk.46.
    SS-N-16 carries the 400 mm UMGT-1 torpedo.

    I think people are just confused by the Wikipedia article. For some reason, it says that Veter carries a 533 mm torpedo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by artjomh View Post
    SS-N-16 carries the 400 mm UMGT-1 torpedo.
    Very well may be — the fact is, it's still a lightweight compact torpedo, not a full-size one.

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    Last ever Proton-K launched today... with the last ever DM-2 booster stage... with what is believed to be the last ever US-KS/Oko class early warning satellite.

    Classified designation: Cosmos-2479

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    So, it's only Proton-M from now?

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