Russian Armed Forces News & Discussion thread

[AustinJ]

Brahmos chief Dr Pillai mentioned that Hypersonic Brahmos is still in design stage and next year they will fire the scramjet in real condition which is actual flight.

According to him Brahmos-2 will enter some time in 2018-20 , which is assume will be possible if all goes well and Brahmos 2 will only be an Air Launched Missile initially .

I did personally speak to Dr Pillai at AeroIndia 2011 and he told me it was not sure sure if DRDO or Russian scramjet design will be accepted ,as both are working on it.

So unless the so called new hypersonic missile of 1000 km range is inducted some time in 2020 which is assuming they have tested the non-export stuff and cleared the sub launched variant , then this missile is something not related to the Indo-Russian brahmos-2.

[AustinJ]

How Truth is in this news that Ukraine can sell R-27 missile to another country without Russian consent or approval , does Ukraine retain the IP and export rights of R-27 missile ?

Ukraine on Brink of Missile Deal with India - Media

[artjomh]

How Truth is in this news that Ukraine can sell R-27 missile to another country without Russian consent or approval , does Ukraine retain the IP and export rights of R-27 missile ?

Ukraine on Brink of Missile Deal with India - Media

Because they've retained the factory and they don't give a **** about anyone's rights.

BTW, Russia makes the active radar homing head for R-27, so if they wanted to, they could block this deal easily. However, R-27 is so outdated compared to R-77, that they may not even bother.

[XTX-Horus]

"Russia will develop a new military doctrine by the end of 2012..." (с)

I am not able to predict the future.

+

Can't answer your second question Horus, not knowledgeable enough xD

As for the BMD we simply don't know.
-Option one is they're waiting for one for the new platforms under development and don't want to waste precious money on older systems.
-Option two is the VDV will undergo some serious structural changes, giving the force different capabilities and equipment
-Option three is that there's a limited amount of money that's being given to the VDV with all the other purchases going on and they simply can't purchase it at the moment.

I think the first option is most likely.

Thank you both for the swift replies gentlemen.

So i guess its either waiting for the next gen vehicles to arrive and/or its waiting untill the new military doctrine has been outlined.

Sources in the Navy Staff are saying that the Yasen class submarines will be armed with "hypersonic missiles with a range of 1000 km".

http://www.lenta.ru/news/2012/04/25/yasen/

The P-1000 "Zyrkon" has a range of 1000 kilometers!!!!??? My heavens!!!! And that with a device/machine that can go 7+ mach and carrying a ~400 kilogram warhead!!

And here i thought my estimation of 700 kilometers was nothing more then daydreaming. The striking power of the Russian navy would be super increased to the point i cannot even fanthom.

[Universals]

Because they've retained the factory and they don't give a **** about anyone's rights.

So they can source all the components from within Ukraine?

[Rubick]

I seriously doubt they are developing several different missiles, at least as far as propulsion and materials are concerned (which is 90% of the work).

As per usual, Indians are going to get gimped range and indigenous electronics, but in all important ways, I seriously doubt that these two missiles are from different R&D projects. That's just not economically efficient, especially since NPO Mash is given an opportunity to develop a missile on Indian dime.

I agree but. Even if they are a close allies would you really give them the most capable anti ship missile ? Even if downgraded.

Related I think they are but cousins more then anything else.


P-1000 is vulcan not Zyrkon-c XTX. Also I would not dream of Mach 7+ missile.

[AustinJ]

The real problem with such long range missile targeting moving target like Ships or CBG etc is the ability to get real time intelligence from off board sensors , its the ability to get all the targeting data and midcourse update that would make such long range targeting possible , I read even oscar-2 had real problems using the real long arm of Shipwreck

Without such targetting data from offboard sensors and using only submarine sonars against ship , practically you can aim for 250-300 km range.

[Raden5]

Because they've retained the factory and they don't give a **** about anyone's rights.
BTW, Russia makes the active radar homing head for R-27, so if they wanted to, they could block this deal easily. However, R-27 is so outdated compared to R-77, that they may not even bother.

Russia accuses Ukraine, that she did not sign the contracts (over 5 years) for the delivery to India of missiles for Russian fighters.

P.S. And JSC TMC - the development of "10 new types of missiles," and not enough production areas.

[artjomh]

So they can source all the components from within Ukraine?

The IR version is Ukrainian. The SARH/ARH version has to be sourced in Russia.

[Shilo]

The real problem with such long range missile targeting moving target like Ships or CBG etc is the ability to get real time intelligence from off board sensors , its the ability to get all the targeting data and midcourse update that would make such long range targeting possible , I read even oscar-2 had real problems using the real long arm of Shipwreck

Without such targetting data from offboard sensors and using only submarine sonars against ship , practically you can aim for 250-300 km range.

Naturally they are going to use the Legenda replacement that is coming online (Liana/Lotos?).

[AustinJ]

Naturally they are going to use the Legenda replacement that is coming online (Liana/Lotos?).

Lets assume the so called Leganda/Lotus/Pumpkin Ocean Recon Satellite work well in actual war situation and provide the initial target cuing in real time , but by the time the missile reaches 1000 odd Km the target may not be there , so they would need some form of midcourse updates to keep the missile and its seeker in FOV of the target once it goes active say 50-100 km closing the target.

[Shilo]

Lets assume the so called Leganda/Lotus/Pumpkin Ocean Recon Satellite work well in actual war situation and provide the initial target cuing in real time , but by the time the missile reaches 1000 odd Km the target may not be there , so they would need some form of midcourse updates to keep the missile and its seeker in FOV of the target once it goes active say 50-100 km closing the target.

Naturally the system should be able to continuously monitor the target - at least to some extent... or what's the point?

At ~M6.5, it would travel 1000KM in ~7.5mins.

[AustinJ]

Assuming its a consistent M 6.5 and powered all the way say by scramjet all the way to target and it does not do any manouvering and we have not taken the time to boost the missile till scramjet burns.

You will still need a very reliable satellite that hopefully your enemy does not shoot down and some form of midcourse update which will some by Aircraft and not by sat.

[Rubick]

Why would you need a midcourse update from an aircraft and not by sat.

[Shilo]

Assuming its a consistent M 6.5 and powered all the way say by scramjet all the way to target and it does not do any manouvering and we have not taken the time to boost the missile till scramjet burns.

You will still need a very reliable satellite that hopefully your enemy does not shoot down and some form of midcourse update which will some by Aircraft and not by sat.

ASAT is still pretty far away from being ubiquitously deployed... not to mention it's a big sky and payloads like this can be masked when sent up.