Russian Armed Forces News & Discussion thread

[sepheronx]

from another forum:

30 (izvestia.ru, 6/9/2011) have been upgraded so far and VVS is going to get another 10 upgraded airframes in 2012 (lenta.ru, 25/11/2011).

These 60 MiG-31BMs seem to a 3rd part of the programme.(http://lenta.ru/news/2011/12/30/mig31/)

Not sure if those 10 airframes are outstanding from the 60+ contract, but anyways it aims for 90-100+ fleet. Not that bad, although 120+ was my previous estimate.

So then there would approximately be 80 to maybe 100 more that wont be upgraded. Are they going to just eventually phase out the Mig-31 and replace it with whatever Sukhoi offers as an alternative? With Russia's vast territory and northern Siberia not being heavily defended, having a lower amount of interceptors wouldn't be ideal imo.

[Andy_UA]

So then there would approximately be 80 to maybe 100 more that wont be upgraded. Are they going to just eventually phase out the Mig-31 and replace it with whatever Sukhoi offers as an alternative? With Russia's vast territory and northern Siberia not being heavily defended, having a lower amount of interceptors wouldn't be ideal imo.

I believe the Achille's heel of current Mig-31 programme is really outdated and maintenance heavy, small hour engines. I heard of two engines that could have replaced the D30-F6 , but with the 90-s and 00-s situation obviously the remotorization didn't get a green light.
So It can be the engine situation that caused a reduction to ~100 airframes in 2020.

actually I found a post on alternative engines:
It has long been necessary to put something new. either new one from Perm, or R-179("Soyuz"), or item 20(A.Lyulka/"Saturn").
(with item 20 supersonic radius would have increased by 300 km)

Is D-30F produced now?
In absence of orders Perm motor factory destroyed in the production of this background. But supposedly there are large stocks of unused engines and spare parts ...

D30f repair in Gatchina
R-79 was produced at Kazan Engine (or all of the documentation for the P-79 m, P-179m, P-145 P-145m sent there)
Everything rests in the ability to produce a series of batch plant, and the KB developer to quickly resolve problems encountered in small-series engine in operation.
What is in the process in Soyuz is known AMNTK and selling itself to the right and left.
http://aviamotorst.narod.ru/ (you can download on the pdf on Soyuz, very especially Interesting in 2009). Kazan plant now works with Gazprom, because of lack of orders for profile.Nothing it all a matter of fact does not change the engine is ready ( P-179m or 79m) his predecessor was mastered in the series, and if you want everything you can for couple of years solve for.
Product 20 = Al 41F (its production is not put into question ). The engine was ready to complete, even to certificate test, but again - no order)

[sepheronx]

I wonder if they are going to just eventually phase out the Mig-31 and replace it with something else (well, they would have to sooner or later)? Any other ideas? Any other aircraft or planned that are capable of taking on the task as interceptor?

[badger11]

Hi guys, I am doing some research about the Zarya-ME sonar system but I don't quite understand the catalog working here: http://www.roe.ru/cataloque/navy/navy_100-104.pdf
I am not quite sure what does Energy linked detection range mean? Also does the directed emission mode mean passive or active mode? The range of the sonar is dependent on the size of the array and can vary from 2.5 to 160km but is it in active or is it in passive mode? What is the difference between directed emission mode and non-directional emission mode when they have similar scan sector?
Finally if anyone has other link about info about the system, I am all ears.
Thank you,

[C.Puffs]

they can even do it drunk.

russia@stong!!11!!

[sepheronx]

russia@stong!!11!!

Is that the only reason you posted in this thread? To troll with ld?

[GunshipDemocracy]

I wonder if they are going to just eventually phase out the Mig-31 and replace it with something else (well, they would have to sooner or later)? Any other ideas? Any other aircraft or planned that are capable of taking on the task as interceptor?

why not PAK-FA? to short combat radius? so what about PAK-DA? the later one needs to have long range, be quick and all in all will be used as platform for launching missiles not to dog fight...

just my 2 €cents

[sepheronx]

why not PAK-FA? to short combat radius? so what about PAK-DA? the later one needs to have long range, be quick and all in all will be used as platform for launching missiles not to dog fight...

just my 2 €cents

PAK DA is a strategic bomber, while PAK FA is a multipurpose, air superiority jet. Mind you, they can always turn one into an inteceptor if needed to be. I am thinking of short-medium term here and thought that maybe a version of Su-30 can be turned into an interceptor. Big plane, lots of space for adding external fuel (if needed to engage at long range) and has a wide array of radars that would work with it.

[void]

Mig-31 is built for sustained Mach 2.5 interception speeds. Su-27 at those speeds runs out of fuel in around 5 minutes (as well as parts of the canopy melting from the heat). It isnt so much a matter of radars and weapons, but more what the airframe, wings, and engines are optimised for.

[sepheronx]

Mig-31 is built for sustained Mach 2.5 interception speeds. Su-27 at those speeds runs out of fuel in around 5 minutes (as well as parts of the canopy melting from the heat). It isnt so much a matter of radars and weapons, but more what the airframe, wings, and engines are optimised for.

Interesting! Thanks for the information. So if this is a case, and Mig-31 importance is there, then I wonder if 100 is enough?

[void]

Interesting! Thanks for the information. So if this is a case, and Mig-31 importance is there, then I wonder if 100 is enough?

It depends on the task at hand. It is quite possible that the number of objects that need defending has fallen since USSR times, given that a whole number of military object no longer exist etc. It is also possible that with the improvements in the range of ground based radars and SAM systems that the number and size of gaps in PVO coverage is reduced. The whole point of the Mig-31 was to plug gaps in ground based coverage around important military objects in the north. If there are less objects and less gaps, then less Mig-31s are needed.

edit: additionally, Mig-31BM probably can perform the role of multiple legacy Mig-31s.

[Khathi]

why not PAK-FA? to short combat radius? so what about PAK-DA? the later one needs to have long range, be quick and all in all will be used as platform for launching missiles not to dog fight...

PAK FA, if the rumors are correct (its true specs are still classified) isn't even rated for the speeds that MiG-31 routinely reaches. Its top speed is speculated to be ~Mach 2.1-2.3, while MiG-31 is designed for the sustained Mach 2.5 flight. It's the matter of the airframe design and optimization. So it would be a rather poor replacement. PAK DA is barely started the design process to begin with, and won't produce even a prototype before at least 2020, and it's a supersonic strategic bomber, not an interceptor. You can shoehorn it into this role, but there's absolutely no guarantee that the outcome would be successful.

[GunshipDemocracy]

PAK FA, if the rumors are correct (its true specs are still classified) isn't even rated for the speeds that MiG-31 routinely reaches. Its top speed is speculated to be ~Mach 2.1-2.3, while MiG-31 is designed for the sustained Mach 2.5 flight. It's the matter of the airframe design and optimization. So it would be a rather poor replacement. PAK DA is barely started the design process to begin with, and won't produce even a prototype before at least 2020, and it's a supersonic strategic bomber, not an interceptor. You can shoehorn it into this role, but there's absolutely no guarantee that the outcome would be successful.

True, very true and maybe I am toatlly wrong but please take into consideration

1. Mig-31 needs top speed meet sub- or slightly supersonic bombers in Notrh and fire BVR missiles
2. Mig 31 is not foreseen to any dogfight just fast missile delivery platform with good radar and heavy payload.
3. PAK-DA requirements: cruse speed 2M, combat radius - enough ,radar? can be upgraded easily to enough strong, number of AA missiles? more, many more

I would not be so sure that PAK-DA cannot work as heavy interceptor. Problem will be in price.

[GunshipDemocracy]

Mig31 top speed is to what I found 2500km/h ~2,35 M and recently discussed requirements for PAK-DA 2 M for sustained speed. Question if 0,35 M will be such a difference? or cannod be changed?

[sepheronx]

^
Or, phase them out like US did with the F-14 and have no interceptor afterwards, but rely on ground based interceptors. Or, continue to upkeep the existing Mig-31's and use the other mig-31's as spare parts till the expiry date hits them and no longer can use the mig-31's (due to airframe); use them in conjunction with existing and future ground interceptors till they fully fill the airspace.