Russian Armed Forces News & Discussion thread

[Raden5]

1) As far as I am aware in Russia there is no real commodity market so recycled stuff.

Bad You know...
The whole text does not have any relation to reality.

P.S. By the way - about scandal with utilization of armored vehicles and redistribution of this market - written a lot, not secret.

[[64]Lynx]

I have question, maybe I do not understand basic metallurgy, so I don't know why this is this way.
Is there a reason why Russia does not recycle a single tank, airplane, helicopter, submarine, ship, or anything else? Why is trillions of tons of steel going to waste? I seen photo of Russian shipyards with 35-60 decommissioned ships, rusting in water, forest filled with hundreds and hundreds of old soviet tanks, airplane graveyards with hundreds of planes. WHY?
Can you not melt this and make things? If this steel is no good for new military items, how about reebar for under roads, support for buildings, cars, and so on. Why is billions of dollars of steel just rusting away? Russia could make 10,000,000 jobs in 1 week if all of these thing were told to be scrapped.
Why have 50 rusting ships polluting your water? why

Recycling of such amount of military hardware needs many complex facilities. These facilities won't bring profit quickly, so nobody deals with it. There's enough metals produced by industry for different purposes, because not so many things are produced now. It's faster and cheaper to mine the ore. And yes, it takes less people to do it, than recycling old hardware. So less workers = bigger salaries for top- and middle- managers and bosses.

[XTX-Horus]

There are supposedly several new rounds developed but not in mass production yet.

So there ARE new rounds that have been developed. So the "3BM52" and the "3BK31" do exist in some form or another. That is kickass.

Little is known about the 2A82 other than the fact that it allows higher chamber pressures.

Well that is one of the things i allready figured out, so the 3BM48M/3BM48 Svinets-2 should have increased penetration power by several dozens of milimeters of RHA by just adding a bit more proppelant charge. That should give the total penetration depth to around ~820 to 850mm for the Svinets-2 in the 2A82 VS the ~800 to 820mm in the 2A46-M5.

Generally as a rule, Russian military hardware specs and developments are fairly secret unless it is on the export market. 2A82 and new tank rounds are not available for export yet, hence little is known.

That is very much understandable. Hopefully, by 2020, more info will be released by then.

[AustinJ]

Seems like they have upgraded the capability of Antey-2500 compared to what was displayed in 90's

http://ria.ru/interview/20120327/606430368.html

Досягаемость же знаменитого комплекса "Антей-2500" составляет 350 км по дальности и до 37 км – по высоте. Время развертывания с марша и подготовки "Антей-2500" к стрельбе не превышает 5 минут.

However, reach of the famous complex of " Antaeus -2500" it is 350 km on the distance and to 37 km - on the height. Time of development from march and preparation of " Antaeus -2500" to the shooting do not exceed 5 minutes.

http://milparade.udm.ru/25/030.htm

The same system was quoted to have a range of 200 km and altitude of 30 km before

[Raden5]

Recycling of such amount of military hardware needs many complex facilities. These facilities won't bring profit quickly, so nobody deals with it. There's enough metals produced by industry for different purposes, because not so many things are produced now. It's faster and cheaper to mine the ore. And yes, it takes less people to do it, than recycling old hardware. So less workers = bigger salaries for top- and middle- managers and bosses.

For the sake of interest.
Search by word: "buy a scrap-metal", in a region: Moscow, ~ 13 million ads.

The ads warn: "Мы не принимаем: канализационные люки, взрывоопасный или радиоактивный лом, военную технику (любое военное оборудование, снаряды, патроны), проволоку, металлокорд. Кроме того мы в строгом порядке не принимаем автомобили без документов!"

Strange - is not it?

[Sashko]

For the sake of interest.
Search by word: "buy a scrap-metal", in a region: Moscow, ~ 13 million ads.

The ads warn: "Мы не принимаем: канализационные люки, взрывоопасный или радиоактивный лом, военную технику (любое военное оборудование, снаряды, патроны), проволоку, металлокорд. Кроме того мы в строгом порядке не принимаем автомобили без документов!"

Strange - is not it?

For small private metal collectors, it's not really strange. Metal peddlers would go to places they are not supposed to collect scrap, or damage city property and steal everything that is not bolted on otherwise.

[Raden5]

The strange thing is that people say - "there is no market for scrap metal" and "metal scrap does not bring income".

Although the main problem - "how to divide the money?"

[Amur_Tiger]

The strange thing is that people say - "there is no market for scrap metal" and "metal scrap does not bring income".

Although the main problem - "how to divide the money?"

Depends on the metal involved really, where 'scrap metal' involves a lot of copper, yeah there's certainly a margin there. Where it involves iron dominated alloys and the like, probably a lot less so. Also scrap metal by and large don't have to deal with the cost of breaking down the ship/tank/house that has all the metal in the first place, that cost is left to the person selling the scrap.

[GunshipDemocracy]

Optic cables are used in torpedo guidance in Russia since USET-80, IIRC. And I've heard that the problem with the towed spool started exactly because of it: traditionally, Russian torpedoes use a towed spool, because it allows for the full-auto loading of them into tubes, and buffeting in the wake didn't cause problems, as copper wire can tolerate much, much smaller bending radius. In fact, if you use something like a phone wire, that is, thin strips of foil or extra-thin wire wound around a thread and covered in insulation, you can sew and weave with it, without the wire breaking. Optic fiber, on the other hand, is much more sensitive to the bending and shaking, and tends to break much more easily. Thus, towed spools turned the wire guidance into a sort of luck-based mission: you fire the torpedo and pray that the wire doesn't break, because as soon as the wire breaks, torpedo either switches to wake homing (which is notoriously unreliable) or turns on the active sonar, and so long, stealth. UGST reportedly has a body-mounted spool, which exposes only the thin wire itself to the torpedo wake, and also uses a pumpjet, which makes it much less turbulent, so the chances of the wire not breaking is basycally the same as for Western torpedoes with their tube-mounted spools.

hmmm so why in the west torpedoes are guided with fiber cable? I guess Russian material science is at least on pair ... must be habits Is UGST and fizik used also in counter submarine and counter torpedo warfare?

Well, some research is definitely underway, but a) not much heard of it, and b) it's not yet out of the lab stage. Some automatic subs do exist, but these are strictly civilian.

I look forward to hear about it - division AIP + updated shkvals + clubs lurking around Arctic for months... and crew safely in land base
he he no better safeguard of democracy

[GunshipDemocracy]

The strange thing is that people say - "there is no market for scrap metal" and "metal scrap does not bring income".

Although the main problem - "how to divide the money?"

dear Cat, this what I meant saying about legal framework. This is multipalyer market, small scrapyards without legal framework cannot expeort many things and also cannot even send to India or Pakistan. Not to mention that this also technologically challenging task. In Russia recycling industry (not only scrap yards) just recently on rise in the wake of sustainability policy support.

[Raden5]

dear Cat, this what I meant saying about legal framework. This is multipalyer market, small scrapyards without legal framework cannot expeort many things and also cannot even send to India or Pakistan. Not to mention that this also technologically challenging task. In Russia recycling industry (not only scrap yards) just recently on rise in the wake of sustainability policy support.

I have read with interest Your opinion.
Figures for the processing and export of scrap metal I see.
Topic closed.

[Khathi]

hmmm so why in the west torpedoes are guided with fiber cable? I guess Russian material science is at least on pair ... must be habits Is UGST and fizik used also in counter submarine and counter torpedo warfare?

As I've said before, fiber optic cable is used on Russian torpedoes since USET, which is a late 80es design. The problem isn't with the materials, but with the fact that fiber optic cable isn't really compatible with the traditional Russian technology of towed cable spool. Also UGST and Fizik are one and the same — a heavyweight 21" torpedo optimized for ASW and ship-killing. Counter-torpedoes mostly have 14" caliber and 3 to 5 meter length, as opposed to the 7-8 meters of full-sized ones. Current counter-torpedoes are mostly based off Mk.46 derivatives.

I look forward to hear about it - division AIP + updated shkvals + clubs lurking around Arctic for months... and crew safely in land base
he he no better safeguard of democracy

You'd have to wait some couple decades.

[AustinJ]

Fizik-1 and UGST are the same ? I was expecting some new development considering UGST are now more than a decade old.

Perhaps some improvement in sensors and power for Fizik-1

[Khathi]

Fizik-1 and UGST are the same ? I was expecting some new development considering UGST are now more than a decade old.
Perhaps some improvement in sensors and power for Fizik-1

As far as I know (I may be wrong, of course) there are several design iterations of UGST torpedo, all with different codenames. First of them, designed back in 80es and actually having a lot in common with USET torpedo, was the monopropellant one called "Tapir". It used Otto fuel and, reportedly, a bunch of Mk.46-derived motors working on a single shaft. Obviously, this hadn't worked out, and another version was developed, a peroxide-based "Maggot" with the steam turbine engine and somewhat improved homing head — Tapir wasn't that great there either. Fizik is actually at least a THIRD iteration of this torpedo, featuring radically improved homing head that could home on point source, on wake and in active mode, a completely new axial-piston engine, using ****it monopropellant, and having a hull-mounted wire spool in addition to the towed one. All these torpedoes were called UGST, despite having little in common, which is why you often see the references saying that UGST was designed back in 90es. It was, but it was a completely different torpedo (and quite the crappy one, really, no better than universally hated USET), and it was never really adopted. Only Fizik is more or less adequate, being close to the early Mk.48 models, but still somewhat inferior to ADCAP. But at least it's much better than USET and Kit.

[AustinJ]

^^ Thanks Khathi.

Any idea if they would planning to replace the 650 mm SS-N-16 with something similar ,considering it offered greater stand off potential and all future subs wont have 650 mm TT ? How important is this weapon SS-N-16 considered for submarine in doctrine and usefulness.