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Thread: Russian Armed Forces News & Discussion thread

  1. #106
    Senior Member asch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxII View Post
    Which points are hugely exaggerated, and which basic independent analysis shows this?
    Are there any point of the article that are not exaggerated? Are any of the points valid?
    well, for example, here - http://www.gks.ru/wps/wcm/connect/ro...on/demography/ - you can see actual demographic statistics and make your own opinion based on real data from government satistics agency and not on some strange Boston Globe article from 2006.
    and, really, it not takes a genius to spot quite strange data anomalies, such as using static data points to predict population growth in Russia and Vietnam(?), economic statistics cut by 2009, worst crisis year here, etc.

  2. #107
    Making Canadians look bad sepheronx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Austin View Post
    Russia Defense Industry Fails To Deliver

    By Alissa de Carbonnel/*******
    MOSCOW

    Russia’s defense industry has failed to fulfil major arms contracts, President Dmitry Medvedev said on Tuesday, warning top government and industry officials they would be held responsible.

    “The work is going very poorly and slowly,” Medvedev told officials during a televised meeting. “It is unacceptable when decision are taken—and at the highest level—money is allocated but the product is not delivered.”

    In an ironic allusion to Stalin-era forced labor camps, Medvedev said: “In past times, half of the people here would be doing physical exercise in the fresh air.”

    A day earlier, Russia marked the anniversary of the end of World War Two in Europe with its annual display of military might and parade through Moscow’s Red Square.

    Medvedev pledged to arm Russia’s forces with the latest weapons and push reform of a military plagued by low morale and poor equipment.

    Despite its status as the world’s second-largest arms exporter, military analysts say Russia’s defense industry has stagnated since the collapse of the Soviet Union, relying on outdated designs.

    The industry’s shortfalls and the need for an overhaul of the army’s own aging hardware were exposed during Russia’s five-day war with Georgia in 2008 and by the economic crisis of 2009.

    “The situation in the weapons production cannot be called a happy one, and everyone here present knows that,” Medvedev told officials, ordering them to meet the country’s overdue procurement contracts by the end of this month.

    The Kremlin chief reminded officials he had signed off on orders for 30 ballistic missiles, five Iskander short-range missile systems, 300 armored vehicles, 30 helicopters, 28 fighter aircraft, three atomic submarines and a corvette class warship in November 2009.

    Russia has earmarked 19 trillion rubles ($685 billion) over the next decade to equip its forces but arms spending still lags behind that of leading Asian and Western powers
    Maybe someone on the forum can explain this to me.

    Russia builds new aircrafts using older style airframes (Mig-29/Su-27) and manage to get contracts with countries like India, Malaysia, etc. Su-27 probably being the most popular. Then there is the T-90A Main Battle Tank. If these systems are outdated, then how do they sell? Then there is still the introduction of new Balistic missile systems like the Bulava, and the Topol-M (with new ones like Yars being interduced). Then there is the air defense systems like S-300/400 and variants, along with S-500 in Research. What I am not getting at is, where are they falling behind? They are still developing new stuff like PAK FA, and the replacement/upgrade for T-90A (Now Armata). So I am confused here. What makes it so much different than Europes arminant programs? Or the United States? I will say that the US is farther ahead in the area of unmanned equipment and comm system, but they do increment upgrades to (F-15 upgrades, F-16, F-18S/H, M1, Stryker, B52, B1, B2, etc). If the system works for a modern conflict, then why change it?

    The only thing that comes to my head is the lack of production capabilities, where the output of said equipment isn't so high.

    Quote Originally Posted by asch View Post
    well, for example, here - http://www.gks.ru/wps/wcm/connect/ro...on/demography/ - you can see actual demographic statistics and make your own opinion based on real data from government satistics agency and not on some strange Boston Globe article from 2006.
    and, really, it not takes a genius to spot quite strange data anomalies, such as using static data points to predict population growth in Russia and Vietnam(?), economic statistics cut by 2009, worst crisis year here, etc.
    We had gone over this one before. It was stagnant numbers, yet in 2011, the population grew. I believe you said it was due to immigration, correct?

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by asch View Post
    well, for example, here - http://www.gks.ru/wps/wcm/connect/ro...on/demography/ - you can see actual demographic statistics and make your own opinion based on real data from government satistics agency and not on some strange Boston Globe article from 2006.
    and, really, it not takes a genius to spot quite strange data anomalies, such as using static data points to predict population growth in Russia and Vietnam(?), economic statistics cut by 2009, worst crisis year here, etc.
    OK, got a better picture now. Thanks.

  4. #109
    Making Canadians look bad sepheronx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxII View Post
    OK, got a better picture now. Thanks.
    Are you going to post another BS article? You got two so far, make it 3, you may just strike lucky

    I kid I kid. Just teasing you.

  5. #110
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    I will try for the hat trick if I find a third interesting article.
    Without posting the articles I would not have the more correct information I now have from the feedback of the other members.
    Thanks, and cheers.

  6. #111

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    Israel's U.S. envoy urges Russia to cut arms supplies to Mideast

    Israeli Ambassador to Washington Michael Oren on Wednesday called on Russia via the Russian Jewish Congress to restrict weapons supplies to Syria and Iran, Israel's long-time enemies.

    The issue has long been a sticking point in Russia's otherwise friendly relations with Israel.

    Speaking to the Russian Jewish Congress during their ten-day U.S. tour, Oren said Russia should tighten control over its arms exports to the Middle East.

    He praised Russia's missile defense systems but warned against selling them to Syria and Iran where they could end up in the hands of Israel's enemies.

    Oren also asked Russian Jews to persuade Moscow to help his country's efforts to scrap Iran's nuclear program. Western powers suspect Tehran of pursuing a secret nuclear weapons program, which Iran strongly denies, insisting it needs atomic energy solely for civilian purposes.

  7. #112
    Senior Member artjomh's Avatar
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    Will Israel buy Russian weapons instead?

    It is rather silly to appeal to moral standards to one of the most realpolitik-oriented governments in the world (I'm talking about Russia).

  8. #113

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    Well in the past Israel has threatened on not carry with the UAV deal with Russia if it continues Yakhont sale.

    In the ME there is hardly few countries that buy from Russia ,Not selling weapons to Syria and Iran or other ME countries that oppose Israel will greatly impact its export.

  9. #114
    Senior Member Andy_UA's Avatar
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    My News batch -

    Adm.Mullen - Russian army meets todays challenges
    http://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=450762&cid=7
    http://vpk.name/news/52513_admiral_m..._vyizovam.html
    P.S. Kudos to Adm.Mullen very good interview.

    VDV: 20years road of reforming
    http://www.warandpeace.ru/ru/exclusive/view/57827/

    Medvedev demands faster acceptance of MIC modernisation programme
    http://www.vz.ru/news/2011/5/10/490159.html

    Il-78 tanker - interview with crew
    http://krasnaya-zvezda.com/2011/05/11_05/3_01.html

    Tatishevo is continuing its rearmament with SS-27 ICBM's 2 silos declared operational, Also till the end of year first full regiment composed of 'Yars' mobile launchers will be formed (6 + 3)
    http://www.function.mil.ru/news_page...0453860@egNews

    Russia-Norway naval drills Pomor-2011 start May 11th.
    http://www.rian.ru/defense_safety/20110506/371590273.html

    Russian special purpose vessel heads to NATO training
    http://www.vz.ru/news/2011/5/10/490193.html

    Navy website poll approves that a special rescue ship is needed for the navy (it is being constructed BTW)
    http://flot.com/news/navy/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=71400

    Space forces comm hub hardware has been replaced
    http://www.vz.ru/news/2011/5/10/490162.html

    INDUSTRY

    Decision soon to be taken for Admiralty shipyard to move to Kronshtadt island.
    http://www.militaryparitet.com/telet...eletype/10775/

    Russian Helicopters signed long-term contracts with MoD
    http://www.aex.ru/news/2011/5/10/84913/

    Latin America countries interested in Tigr vehicles
    http://vpk.name/news/52461_rossiiski...a_amerika.html

    Ukrainian engine manufacture wants to continue engine development for An-70
    http://vpk.name/news/52537_rossiisko...ristikami.html

    ***
    News on kransnay zvezda website
    http://krasnaya-zvezda.com/news.html

    Developmental simulator for 5th gen jets
    Last edited by Andy_UA; 05-11-2011 at 01:57 PM.

  10. #115

    Default Tigr vs Iveco in Russian trials- Tigr superior

    The Russian MOD has performed trials to compare the Ivecoīs performance, which may be produced in the future:

    To ensure the safety of the crew, Iveco and "Tigr" apply various technologies. The Russian car has a welded capsule, the "Italian" - ceramic armor. As experts explain, the ceramic sheets are attached to the frame with screws. The joints - it's kind of the "Achilles heel" (vulnerability) of the vehicle, experts say, they leave many unprotected areas.

    "Weak areas of armor Iveco - joints enclosures and doors, niches door locks. Thus, the continuous protection of the ceramic armor is not" - said Korablin.

    As of mobility (rough terrain), Tigr proved to be superior in Russian trials.

    Crew capacity was also compared. On the Iveco, it carries 5 people, and the driver is separated from the rest. On Tigr, there is not that disadvantage, it also carries more, 8. The Tigrīs seats are also more functional, and they can be used as a bed for the wounded, on Iveco, no.
    Watch the vid: http://rian.ru/video/20110511/372934899.html

    So it looks as this: Iveco is a disadvantage both in production, different non standart parts, but also in performance. The Russian plan is, aquire the license for production, produce "ten", learn all what you can from modern western production technologies, and continue with better domestic vehicles. Surprising? not at all.

  11. #116
    Senior Member Andy_UA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pythp3 View Post
    So it looks as this: Iveco is a disadvantage both in production, different non standart parts, but also in performance. The Russian plan is, aquire the license for production, produce "ten", learn all what you can from modern western production technologies, and continue with better domestic vehicles. Surprising? not at all.
    You forgot to add that this is experts judgement and not MoD's...

  12. #117

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    Trials were at MODīs request.

    As of my comment, it was that from the start. Russia did not plan to produce them (and others) as a substitution of domestic, ie, large quantities. The original plan for all this was to create competition within national industries (solve internal conflicts), and to gain new technologies with license production, tech transfer.

  13. #118
    Senior Member artjomh's Avatar
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    You gotta understand one thing. Tigr vs Iveco is not a "Russia vs Italy" or "foreign vs domestic" competition.

    It's a competition between GAZ (which makes Tigr) and KAMAZ (which wants to make Iveco). This is a purely domestic competition for government money, just some part of tech are licensed from Italy.

    However, GAZ wants to push the "patriotic" button, so they emphasize the foreign aspect of Iveco. But in reality, most of the money is staying in Russia either way.

  14. #119

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    I was speaking in a more general way, about this recent "trends"

    In this case, Kamaz produces Ivecos in function of the Defense ministry, and not the oposite. The MOD wanted and promoted this, wanted a "foreign" in competition. And local production in Kamaz is essential as of the military doctrine, that there cannot be any kind of dependance, and to gain prod metods, the only reason behind.

    Itīs not like goverment allocated money for vehicle purchase and Kamaz "chose" foreign Iveco, if you refer to that. This is a political decision from goverment, not military or industrial.

  15. #120
    Senior Member artjomh's Avatar
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    It's more of a bug, not a feature.

    The MOD shouldn't negotiate arms contracts, that's not their job. Their job is to issue RFPs and then have commercial companies negotiate licenses and production agreements.

    That's why Mistral talks are so ass backwards. Instead of delegating the negotiations to Rosoboronexport or OSK, MOD is negotiating the finer points of a contract with DCNS, and failing miserably. Admirals are not businessmen!

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