The Switf Boat Vets have proven Kerry a liar

[priccobe]

Three things that scrutinizing the Swift Boat Vets accounts have proved:

1. John Kerry was not in Cambodia although it was "seared" in his mind.

2. His first purple heart may have been self-inflicted according to his journal statements.

3. His statements admitting to war crimes on "Meet the Press" in 1971.

So, who's smearing who here? These things needed to be brought to the forefront and discussed. If he's lying about all of this and an admitted war criminal, no way should he be president.

[XASA]

Three things that scrutinizing the Swift Boat Vets accounts have proved:

1. John Kerry was not in Cambodia although it was "seared" in his mind.

2. His first purple heart may have been self-inflicted according to his journal statements.

3. His statements admitting to war crimes on "Meet the Press" in 1971.

So, who's smearing who here? These things needed to be brought to the forefront and discussed. If he's lying about all of this and an admitted war criminal, no way should he be president.

The pros and cons of your three points has been discussed and argued in great detail already in at least four recent threads. Perhaps you might take the time to read them

[priccobe]

Already have, but the points bear repeating for all those who support Kerry.

[Huck Mucus]

Already have

Then you did not pay attention, because all the points were successfully rebutted and the Not So Swift Boat Liars were proven wrong. By no means comprehensive, but in summary:

1. It was never proven that Kerry was not in Cambodia. Early on in the patrol he was two hours away from Cambodia. He had another 7 hours to go. Also, remember present recollection recorded and past recollection refreshed.

2. You can't really "prove" a "may" and then hang your hat on it. Besides, Purple Hearts are often awarded for self-inflicted wounds. The question is, did he do it on purpose. Even the Not So Swift Liars admit he did not. Even Bob Dole was too close to his own grenade. Also, Purple Hearts were handed out like candy in Vietnam.

3. See Abu Graib. See Mi Lia. See Kerry's admition to exhuberance in his testimony. Besides, when did he ever deny having committed the awful acts that he said he committed in Vietnam?

Now, if you want to list all the times Kerry's side has indeed PROVEN the Swift Boat Liars to be liars, then you will prove that you actually read all the threads. Also, when your talking-head gods like Limbaugh, et al take things out of context and don't pay attention to timing, they can make anything look strange over a 35 year period (journal entries, patrol orders, testimony, etc.) If you seek the truth you must put all that crap back in order and context.

Oh, and I can't really say I support Kerry. I just support our men in uniform, especially those who actually fought. You know, the same ones who's service is now in question, like the enlisted guy who got the Bronze on the same day.

[XASA]

I see. The big lie, as Goebells use to call it. If you repeat it long enough, people will believe it.

I don't think that rationale will work with Kerry supporters but thanks anyway for thinking about them Most people realize by now that the SBVT has no credibility with the exception of hard core Republicans, so I'm sure it must feel cool to be part of an exclusive group of true believers

Good luck in November

[hist2004]

So, who's smearing who here? These things needed to be brought to the forefront and discussed. If he's lying about all of this and an admitted war criminal, no way should he be president.

John Kerry, although well known in Massachusetts (US Senator 19 yrs.) is a virtual unknown
to the rest of the country. Why is that? Because he hasn’t authored any legislation during
that time. The democratic machine knows this, and needed to present a “face” for John Kerry.
How to do that? run on his “Vietnam record”. Problem is Kerry served for 4 months in Vietnam
as opposed to 19yrs of undistinguished service in the Senate. By presenting Kerry as a war
veteran, the Democrats hope to show that he’s capable of being commander in chief, in other
words, President. Unfortunately for Kerry, by focusing on his war record, he opens up as a
lawyer would say, “cross examination”.

Kerry took a risk running on his war record because he was such a controversial figure after
the war, given his association with the anti-war movement, and his Senate testimony on the
“war crimes” committed by US military personnel. As far as the “smear campaign” against him,
his outrage about this is laughable. George Bush has been attacked and smeared for the past
12 months by Ted Kennedy, Al Franken, Michael Moore, and moveon.org with the muti-millions
being poured in by George Soros, a socialist who is almost fanatical in his efforts to
defeat George Bush.

Here’s a little info on George Soros. On Black Wednesday (September 16, 1992), Soros became
instantly famous when, believing the Pound Sterling was overvalued, he speculated aggressively
against it. The Bank of England was forced to withdraw the currency out of the European Exchange
Rate Mechanism, and Soros earned an estimated US$ 1.1 billion in the process. He was dubbed "the
man who broke the Bank of England."

One more note on running on your military record. History shows us that it isn't what the American
people consider when choosing a President. Clinton defeated a war hero, the first President Bush.
Clinton defeated Bob Dole, another war hero. Bob Kerry, Ex-Navy Seal, Medal of honor winner lost
in the '92 election primary to Clinton.

Regards,
Hist2004

[XASA]

Hist, thanks for your well thought out post. We disagree on many points, which I've already noted in other threads.

Thanks for the George Soros information. Did he commit a crime? Or are you condemning him for being a capitalist and making a buck? IMHO, that's the American way

What I want to point out to you is that Americans do vote for war heroes and have done so repeatedly in the past. Although I don't have the time to do research as you do, I think a quick check will reveal the names of several presidents whose war exploits were central to their election. A few that immediately come to mind are Washington, Jackson, Tyler, Grant, Teddy Roosevelt and Eisenhower.

Now just because you didn't get that right doesn't mean all your other historical posts should be doubted for their veracity. That would be nit-picking-- which is what the SBVT is doing: every time they are caught in a lie, they come up with some other lie to base their opposition on.

I look forward to your future posts

[hist2004]

No worries, I should have mentioned "recent" elections.

Regards & Thanks,
Hist2004

[Trigger]

Thanks for the George Soros information. Did he commit a crime? Or are you condemning him for being a capitalist and making a buck? IMHO, that's the American way

This is not a flame, but does this mean **** Cheney's time at Haliburton is forgiven? He was just a capitalist making a buck like everyone else.

[moughoun]

I'm just going to chuck this in here, hope it blows up

CRAWFORD, Texas (*******) - A top lawyer for President Bush's re-election campaign, Benjamin Ginsberg, resigned on Wednesday after disclosing he provided legal advice to the group that has accused Democrat John Kerry of lying about his Vietnam record.
"I have decided to resign as national counsel to your campaign to ensure that the giving of legal advice to decorated military veterans, which was entirely within the boundaries of the law, doesn't distract from the real issues upon which you and the country should be focusing," Ginsberg wrote in a letter to President Bush.

© ******* 2004. All Rights Reserved.

[XASA]

Thanks for the George Soros information. Did he commit a crime? Or are you condemning him for being a capitalist and making a buck? IMHO, that's the American way

This is not a flame, but does this mean **** Cheney's time at Haliburton is forgiven? He was just a capitalist making a buck like everyone else.

I've never mentioned Cheney's connection to Haliburton or whether or how he earned his money, so you might want to direct your question at someone who has I responded to Hist's reference to Soros, which I thought had nothing to do with whether or not the SBVT are liars. I do think Republicans are mad that someone they feel should be in the corner because he is a billionaire, Soros, has a different agenda than them.

[priccobe]

I'm just going to chuck this in here, hope it blows up Pirate

CRAWFORD, Texas (*******) - A top lawyer for President Bush's re-election campaign, Benjamin Ginsberg, resigned on Wednesday after disclosing he provided legal advice to the group that has accused Democrat John Kerry of lying about his Vietnam record.
"I have decided to resign as national counsel to your campaign to ensure that the giving of legal advice to decorated military veterans, which was entirely within the boundaries of the law, doesn't distract from the real issues upon which you and the country should be focusing," Ginsberg wrote in a letter to President Bush.

Look at these ties to Kerry:

[hist2004]

I responded to Hist's reference to Soros, which I thought had nothing to do with whether or not the SBVT are liars. I do think Republicans are mad that someone they feel should be in the corner because he is a billionaire, Soros, has a different agenda than them.

I mentioned Soros because he’s behind the smear campaign against George Bush, a campaign that
Kerry is angry about being waged against him.

Regards,
Hist2004

[XASA]

Bernstein is the first person to resign, and Cordoes, the POW, was dumped. If everything is on the level about the SBVT, why has the stench permeated the campaign to the point folks need to distance themselves from it? Let me answer that for you: The backlash is setting in

[XASA]

I responded to Hist's reference to Soros, which I thought had nothing to do with whether or not the SBVT are liars. I do think Republicans are mad that someone they feel should be in the corner because he is a billionaire, Soros, has a different agenda than them.

I mentioned Soros because he’s behind the smear campaign against George Bush, a campaign that
Kerry is angry about being waged against him.

Regards,
Hist2004

Fair enough. But what does Soros have to do with the SBVT being liars? And using your research abilities, can you document any lies about Bush that Soros is responsible for? It's one thing to launch a personal attack, it's an entirely different matter to launch a personal attack fueled by lies.