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Thread: Bath Iron Works Lays Keel of First DDG 1000 Zumwalt

  1. #31
    Senior Member Jdam1's Avatar
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    Nice to know these ships still have a chance, did they ever mate Ultra 2200 with the rest of the ship?

  2. #32
    Purveyor of intelligent reading material Lt-Col A. Tack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C.Puffs View Post
    Both. Then there's the matter of feature-creep. I look at military procurement in the US these days and can't help but think of the Keystone Cops accompanied by Benny Hill.
    It pains me to say that I can't really argue with that.

    So it seems we need a cruiser sized vessel (maybe with a nuclear power plant) but that's just what we can't afford?

  3. #33
    Senior Member Halidon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdam1 View Post
    Nice to know these ships still have a chance, did they ever mate Ultra 2200 with the rest of the ship?
    I haven't heard one way or the other yet, when the Navy or BIW lets the information out I'll be sure to post it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lt-Col A. Tack View Post
    So it seems we need a cruiser sized vessel (maybe with a nuclear power plant) but that's just what we can't afford?
    Some say that. Some don't. There hasn't been a proper study of the BMD mission and the various platform options. In fact, since SC-21 was scrapped there's really no comprehensive fleet plan. At least none that the Navy has made available to the Public or the Legislature. Decisions have been made, and continue to be made, with weak justification and little in the way of supporting data.

    The most capable option would be a nuclear cruiser in the 20-25K ton range, featuring very large AMDR antennas and around 150 Mk57 VLS cells. Sure would not be cheap, though. The Navy said they could do the mission with Burke Flight III, which would have a much smaller AMDR, around 60 fewer VLS cells, and would displace about 11,000 tons. But its becoming increasingly clear they can't make it work. Could Zumwalt's much bigger hull, with lots of built-in growth capability, do the job? Or do we need a clean-sheet? We don't know, the Navy doesn't have a Plan.

  4. #34
    Purveyor of intelligent reading material Lt-Col A. Tack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halidon View Post
    Some say that. Some don't. There hasn't been a proper study of the BMD mission and the various platform options. In fact, since SC-21 was scrapped there's really no comprehensive fleet plan. At least none that the Navy has made available to the Public or the Legislature. Decisions have been made, and continue to be made, with weak justification and little in the way of supporting data.

    The most capable option would be a nuclear cruiser in the 20-25K ton range, featuring very large AMDR antennas and around 150 Mk57 VLS cells. Sure would not be cheap, though. The Navy said they could do the mission with Burke Flight III, which would have a much smaller AMDR, around 60 fewer VLS cells, and would displace about 11,000 tons. But its becoming increasingly clear they can't make it work. Could Zumwalt's much bigger hull, with lots of built-in growth capability, do the job? Or do we need a clean-sheet? We don't know, the Navy doesn't have a Plan.
    Very interesting, many thanks, sir.

    I would hate to see us commit billions and billions of dollars to a design that is marginally capable of fulfilling the intended missions, but that doesn't leave room for new missions and equipment.

    For a vessel that could be in service for 20 or 30 years (given the development costs of any new vessel, I would think it should be at least 30 years), I would hope it has a hefty reserve, in terms of extra hullspace and power generating capacity.

  5. #35
    How's that Hopey Changey thing workin'? C.Puffs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lt-Col A. Tack View Post
    I would think it should be at least 30 years), I would need to have a hefty reserve, in terms of extra hullspace and power generating capacity.
    Zumwalts were designed with that specifically in mind. Then they're too expensive so it's, "end the class at three units and go back to the Burkes. We'll just bump up the power generation capacity, it'll be easy".

  6. #36
    Senior Member Halidon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C.Puffs View Post
    Zumwalts were designed with that specifically in mind. Then they're too expensive so it's, "end the class at three units and go back to the Burkes. We'll just bump up the power generation capacity, it'll be easy".
    Yeah, the more which is revealed about the decision to truncate the Zumwalts and place all our eggs in a Burke hull, the poorer it looks. It amazes me that Admirals Roughead and Mullen, who both witnessed the change from pre-AEGIS to the modern fleet, and Sec Winter, a physicist with extensive background in power-hungry technology, all either failed to see this problem coming or brushed it off.

  7. #37
    How's that Hopey Changey thing workin'? C.Puffs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halidon View Post
    Yeah, the more which is revealed about the decision to truncate the Zumwalts and place all our eggs in a Burke hull, the poorer it looks. It amazes me that Admirals Roughead and Mullen, who both witnessed the change from pre-AEGIS to the modern fleet, and Sec Winter, a physicist with extensive background in power-hungry technology, all either failed to see this problem coming or brushed it off.
    More likely they were given their marching orders and told, "make it work". Because history has shown time and time again that that's always the cheapest way to do it.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Halidon's Avatar
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    Since imagry is still pretty hard to come by as progress continues, here's a vid discussing pVLS
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWjVFzxzG10&feature

  9. #39
    Member Dankster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halidon View Post
    Yeah, the more which is revealed about the decision to truncate the Zumwalts and place all our eggs in a Burke hull, the poorer it looks. It amazes me that Admirals Roughead and Mullen, who both witnessed the change from pre-AEGIS to the modern fleet, and Sec Winter, a physicist with extensive background in power-hungry technology, all either failed to see this problem coming or brushed it off.
    Completely agree. It's obvious that the excuse for cutting Zumwalts and restarting Burke production is turning out to be BS. The Flight III idea is a farce. But don't count on the Navy admitting their mistake and reversing it.

  10. #40

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    I find the decission to wrap the missile magazines around the surface of the ship to be slightly suspicious. It is bad enough to get hit without adding your own explosives and propellant to the mix...

  11. #41
    Senior Member Halidon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dankster View Post
    Completely agree. It's obvious that the excuse for cutting Zumwalts and restarting Burke production is turning out to be BS. The Flight III idea is a farce. But don't count on the Navy admitting their mistake and reversing it.
    There's some hope. The people who made this stupid decision are mostly out of the Service, and as Flight III news only gets worse pressure will eventually mount to change something. It's unfortunate that the legislature is full of incompetents, the honorable Senators from Maine seem to frequently forget they represent a shipyard.

    Quote Originally Posted by CJvR View Post
    I find the decission to wrap the missile magazines around the surface of the ship to be slightly suspicious. It is bad enough to get hit without adding your own explosives and propellant to the mix...
    Actually the pVLS arrangement has resulted in the Zumwalts being somewhat heavily armored. Each 4-cell unit is in its own armored compartment, with heavier armor inboard and between compartments. The tubes are fairly sturdy, the missiles are shock-hardened, and the hatches will pop before the armor gives so much of the shock goes up. If a unit takes a hit, you get one of two outcomes: The cells are empty, in which case you effectively have several inches of armor plus a couple feet of void space to absorb the impact. Or the cells have rounds in them, in which case the rounds act almost like reactive armor, with the armor directing the force of the explosion up and outward instead if into the inner hull. You'll loose that VLS unit, might knock out the units on either side, but the damage will be contained.

  12. #42
    Purveyor of intelligent reading material Lt-Col A. Tack's Avatar
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    DDG 1000 Program Successfully Demonstrates Next Stage of Integrated IPS Testing

    3/22/2012
    from: PEO Ships Public Affairs


    WASHINGTON - The future USS Zumwalt (DDG 1000) completed a major developmental test, March 20, demonstrating the integration of the Engineering Control System (ECS) software and the ship's Integrated Power System (IPS) at the Land Based Test Site at Naval Surface Warfare Center Carderock Division, Ship Systems Engineering Station.

    The test verified the software and hardware compatibility and interoperability between the ECS hardware and the IPS.

    Conducted by a joint Navy and industry team, this occasion marks the successful completion of the second of two developmental test events, and focused on demonstrating the dynamic control and monitoring features of the IPS using actual DDG 1000 class control system interfaces and tactical hardware.

    "This is an extremely significant test milestone for the DDG 1000 program," said Capt. James Downey, DDG 1000 program manager from Program Executive Office (PEO) Ships. "This test demonstrates that the DDG 1000 program's incremental development of technologies and robust testing plan are on track to deliver unprecedented capability to the Fleet."

    DDG 1000 is the first surface combatant to be built with an IPS, which will use electric power for propulsion and ship services.

    The IPS generates the total ship electric power requirements, then distributes and converts it for all ship loads, including propulsion, combat systems and ship services.


    The test demonstrated IPS control at various levels of intelligence, including manual, man-in-the-loop and automated scenarios under normal and fault conditions.

    Among the functions tested were operating mode transitions, control of the IPS under full propulsion motor power demand, and automated control under various fault scenarios.

    Completion of this testing marks a significant milestone in a planned three-year integration and risk reduction test effort where the IPS has been demonstrated at full power - now integrated with major portions of its shipboard control system. Thoroughly testing the units at the land- based test facility greatly reduces construction risk at Bath Iron Works. Additional risk reduction testing will continue to support ship activation into 2013.

    The lead ship of the DDG 1000 class, USS Zumwalt, is currently 67 percent complete and scheduled to deliver in fiscal year 2014, with an initial operating capability in fiscal year 2016.

    The second ship, USS Michael Monsoor (DDG 1001), is over 26 percent complete. DDG 1002 is scheduled to start fabrication in April 2012.


    As one of the Defense Department's largest acquisition organizations, PEO Ships, an affiliated PEO of NAVSEA, is responsible for executing the development and procurement of all destroyers, amphibious ships, special mission and support ships, special warfare craft, and foreign military sales.

    http://www.navsea.navy.mil/NewsView....ewsWires&id=27

  13. #43
    Member Dankster's Avatar
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    Excellent. This will be the B2 of Navy ships

  14. #44
    How's that Hopey Changey thing workin'? C.Puffs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dankster View Post
    Excellent. This will be the B2 of Navy ships
    I'll be surprised if it's that successful. It's already the Zumwalt after all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by C.Puffs View Post
    I'll be surprised if it's that successful. It's already the Zumwalt after all.
    There some new technology worth noting such as the rail gun and gps guided artillery shells.

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