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Thread: Eurogeddon, the end of the Euro

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    Default Eurogeddon, the end of the Euro

    Euro holds on for dear life as end draws nigh

    Jeremy Warner

    November 26, 2011


    'No one wants to hold euro-denominated assets.' Photo: *******

    IT'S time to think what hitherto markets have regarded as unthinkable - that the euro really is on its last legs. The defining moment was the fiasco over Wednesday's bund auction, reinforced on Thursday by the spectacle of German sovereign bond yields rising above those of Britain.
    If you are tempted to think this another vote of confidence by international investors in Britain, don't. Nor does it have much to do with the idea that Germany will eventually get saddled with liability for periphery nation debts, thereby undermining its own creditworthiness.
    No, what this is about is the markets starting to bet on what was previously a minority view - a complete collapse, or break-up, of the euro. Until the past few days, it has remained just about possible to go along with the idea that Germany would ultimately bow to pressure and do whatever might be required to save the single currency.
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    The prevailing view was that the German Chancellor didn't really mean what she was saying, or was only saying it to placate German voters. When finally Angela Merkel came to peer over the precipice, she would retreat from her hard-line position and compromise. Self-interest alone would force Germany to act.
    But there comes a point in every crisis where the consensus shatters. That's what has just occurred, and with good reason. In recent days, it has become plain as a pike staff that the lady's not for turning.
    This has caused remaining international confidence in the euro to evaporate, and even German bunds to lose their ''risk-free'' status. Suddenly, no one wants to hold euro-denominated assets of any variety.
    The Americans are getting their money out as fast as they decently can. British banks have stopped lending to all but their safest euro-zone counterparts, and even those have been denied access to dollar funding. All of a sudden, the pound is the European default asset of choice.
    What we are witnessing is awesome stuff - the death throes of a currency. And not just any old currency, but one that when it was launched was confidently expected to take its place alongside the dollar as a major reserve currency. That promise looks to be in ruins today.
    From the British Treasury on Whitehall to the architectural monstrosity of the Bundesbank in Frankfurt, everyone is desperately trying to figure out how bad the consequences might be.
    What they are preparing for is the biggest mass default in history. European finance and trade is too far integrated to allow for an easy unwinding of contracts. It's going to be anarchy.
    In its current form, the single currency might always have been doomed, but it has been greatly helped on its way by an extraordinarily inept series of policy errors.
    First there was the disastrous suggestion from Chancellor Merkel and Nicolas Sarkozy that if Greece didn't buckle under it might be chucked out. Markets reacted logically by selling bonds in any country that looked vulnerable and chasing ''safe-haven'' assets, thereby making it much harder for governments to fund themselves.
    The blunder was compounded by attempts to underpin confidence in the banking system by forcing banks to mark their sovereign debt to market. This may only have recognised the reality, but it also destroyed the concept of the ''risk-free asset'', forcing banks for the first time to apply capital to their sovereign debt exposures. Unsurprisingly, they stopped buying sovereign bonds, again making it harder for governments to fund themselves.
    But perhaps the biggest sin of the lot was effectively to render all credit default swaps (a form of insurance against default) on sovereign debt essentially worthless, or void, by making the Greek default ''voluntary''.
    This has made it impossible to hedge against euro-zone sovereign debt purchases, and thereby destroyed the market. Worse, it's made investors believe the euro cannot be trusted, that it will repeatedly find ways of reneging on contract. That's the point of no return. This is no longer a serious currency.







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    Death of a currency as eurogeddon approaches

    It's time to think what hitherto markets have regarded as unthinkable – that the euro really is on its last legs.

    They need to wake up fast; it's happening before their very eyes. In its current form, the single currency may always have been doomed, but it has been greatly helped on its way by an extraordinarily inept series of policy errors. Photo: AFP




    By Jeremy Warner, Associate editor

    7:00PM GMT 24 Nov 2011


    The defining moment was the fiasco over Wednesday's bund auction, reinforced on Thursday by the spectacle of German sovereign bond yields rising above those of the UK.

    If you are tempted to think this another vote of confidence by international investors in the UK, don't. It's actually got virtually nothing to do with us. Nor in truth does it have much to do with the idea that Germany will eventually get saddled with liability for periphery nation debts, thereby undermining its own creditworthiness.

    No, what this is about is the markets starting to bet on what was previously a minority view - a complete collapse, or break-up, of the euro. Up until the past few days, it has remained just about possible to go along with the idea that ultimately Germany would bow to pressure and do whatever might be required to save the single currency.

    The prevailing view was that the German Chancellor didn't really mean what she was saying, or was only saying it to placate German voters. When finally she came to peer over the precipice, she would retreat from her hard line position and compromise. Self interest alone would force Germany to act.

    But there comes a point in every crisis where the consensus suddenly shatters. That's what has just occurred, and with good reason. In recent days, it has become plain as a pike staff that the lady's not for turning.

    This has caused remaining international confidence in the euro to evaporate, and even German bunds to lose their "risk free" status. The crisis is no longer confined to the sinners of the south. Suddenly, no-one wants to hold euro denominated assets of any variety, and that includes what had previously been thought the eurozone safe haven of German bunds.
    Investors have gone on strike. The Americans are getting their money out as fast as they decently can. British banks have stopped lending to all but their safest eurozone counterparts, and even those have been denied access to dollar funding. The UK hardly has anything to boast of; it's got its own legion of problems, many of them not so dissimilar to those of the eurozone periphery.
    But almost anything is going to look preferable to a currency which might soon be assigned to the dustbin of history. All of a sudden, the pound is the European default asset of choice.
    What we are witnessing is awesome stuff – the death throes of a currency. And not just any old currency either, but what when it was launched was confidently expected to take its place alongside the dollar as one of the world's major reserve currencies. That promise today looks to be in ruins.
    Contingency planning is in progress throughout Europe. From the UK Treasury on Whitehall to the architectural monstrosity of the Bundesbank in Frankfurt, everyone is desperately trying to figure out precisely how bad the consequences might be.
    What they are preparing for is the biggest mass default in history. There's no orderly way of doing this. European finance and trade is too far integrated to allow for an easy unwinding of contracts. It's going to be anarchy.
    It's worth stressing here that for the moment the contingency planning is confined to officialdom. This week, for instance, we've had the Financial Services Authority's Andrew Bailey admit that he's asked UK banks to plan for a disorderly breakup of the euro. He'd be failing in his duties if he hadn't. Europe's political elite, as ever several steps behind the reality, still regards the prospect as unimaginable.
    They need to wake up fast; it's happening before their very eyes. In its current form, the single currency may always have been doomed, but it has been greatly helped on its way by an extraordinarily inept series of policy errors.
    First there was the disastrous suggestion from Angela Merkel and Nicolas Sarkozy that if Greece didn't buckle under it might be chucked out. Markets reacted logically, which was to sell bonds in any country that looked vulnerable and chase "safe haven" assets, thereby making it much harder for governments to fund themselves.
    The blunder was compounded by attempts to underpin confidence in the banking system by forcing banks to mark their sovereign debt to market. This may only have recognised the reality, but it also destroyed the concept of the "risk free asset", forcing banks for the first time to apply capital to their sovereign debt exposures. Unsurprisingly, they stopped buying sovereign bonds, again making it harder for governments to fund themselves.



    JW is a well respected UK financial commentator with usually credible sources.

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    Garand Member Ought Six's Avatar
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    And when the euro collapses, what then? What of the outstanding public and private toxic debt that so many European banks hold on their balance sheets? What about the bond holders, including mutal funds and 401ks, that end up with handfuls of worthless paper? What about the CDSs that cannot be paid? What of the ultra-leveraged $hundreds of trillions$ (no typo) derivatives market? I fear this could be the event that triggers much worse economic devastation in Europe, and that it will start to spread worldwide.

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    Look what happened when the US mortgage market unravelled? I think that taught us a lesson about the real integration of economies. If the Euro goes in an uncontrolled manner there will be no time to re-contract debt in a new currency. Who is going to accept debt denominated in euros when a crashing currency will have an ubstable exchange rate. I saw some people get real financial head-start in the GFC. The trick will be how to be in that position this time.

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    Senior Member Mackie's Avatar
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    I smell schadenfreude by the telegraph.

    Nice how he praises the pound. Only 60% of all UK bonds are hold by private institutions and oversea investors.
    A MASSIVE drop.
    5% inflation.
    The UK has the highest debt/GDP ratio (public + private) in the world with nearly 500%.


    Ironically the author didn't mention any point that will break the Euro.

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    He actually states it is not a confidence in the pound. second para in second article. As for expecting a predicted moment when the euro will collapse, you tell us at what point is the euro dead? There are economic and legal factors that will determine this point, aside from popular confidence and actual practice. I think you are being harsh.

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    Senior Member Pandemonium's Avatar
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    when they start to get too negative and eurocritics are celebrating and believe they've won the battle, I believe it is time for a move up( the market does not like too many people making money), it is rather ridiculous to claim now that the euro is defeated, this is the euro's first major crisis. And they never talk about limiting the number of eurocountries, or going back to the founding countries, no the euro will totally dissapear, and hey why not the whole EU system? If we are to believe the economists these days the world will be no more then a post-apocalyptic wasteland. We must always remember one thing, economists are not objective scientists, they are always on one side of the markets and have their own intrests to defend

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    Senior Member Mujo2000's Avatar
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    U.S. 3-month
    0.015% +0.000
    U.S. 2-year
    0.274% +0.012
    U.S. 10-year 1.964%

    I think these numbers will go even further down. US will be able to borrow for next to nothing, since we have a central bank which is able and ready to be a lender of last resort, and because we can print our own money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mackie View Post
    I smell schadenfreude by the telegraph.

    Nice how he praises the pound. Only 60% of all UK bonds are hold by private institutions and oversea investors.
    A MASSIVE drop.
    5% inflation.
    The UK has the highest debt/GDP ratio (public + private) in the world with nearly 500%.


    Ironically the author didn't mention any point that will break the Euro.
    Stop feeling butthurt and read the article again.

    You're forgetting that the UK has large assets too (we own the 3rd highest portion of US debt) utterly pointless to keep banging on about debt levels alone. The markets obviously believe in the UK's ability to pay back its debt and this is why.

    Look at this chart




    As you can see the UK & Italy actually do pay down large chunks of their debt when they can whereas since 1992 both France & Germanys debt is just one huge jump up.
    See the spike in 2007 - that's Northern Rock and the beginning of the recapitalisation of British banks.

    A huge chunk of British debt will be wiped out when it sells the banks, most probably for a profit.

    The UK recapitalised its banks and conducted austerity measures when its GDP was 45%. The Eurozone has yet to do this to its banks to the same degree but they'll have to do it with debt/GDP ratios 80-100%. This isn't going to pretty. For them, nor us as a large trading partner.

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    Bah.... I won't hold my breath for the end of the Euro as a currency, I do see at least one state leaving the Euro thouh but that in its self does not mean the end.

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    Senior Member Piirka's Avatar
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    To me, holding the Euro alive at all costs, is like sending reinforcements to an already lost battle. All the dead-weight will eventually drag the whole Euro-zone under the waves.

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    Garand Member Ought Six's Avatar
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    Keeping the euro alive is a side issue. The main issue is trying to prevent the entire global economic house of cards from caving in.

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    Senior Member Pandemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piirka View Post
    To me, holding the Euro alive at all costs, is like sending reinforcements to an already lost battle. All the dead-weight will eventually drag the whole Euro-zone under the waves.
    Don't exagerate

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    Senior Member Piirka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandemonium View Post
    Don't exagerate
    Yes, sorry for that. Currency don't yet affect tectonics, so Euro-zone can't be the new Atlantis...

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    Hats off to the Belgians. Without a government, they needed 2 days to agree on 10% budget cuts. With 6 parties.

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