Medieval Knights Feared Posttraumatic Stress

[pocoloco]

Knights in the Middle Ages were not the brutal and merciless killing machines depicted on film.

New research draws a different picture of the medieval military elite.Medieval knights are often depicted as bloodthirsty men who enjoyed killing. But that is a completely wrong picture, new research shows.The knights did not kill just because they wanted to, but because it was their job – precisely like soldiers today. Nor were the Middle Ages as violent as we think, despite their different perception of violence compared to ours.

“Modern military psychology enables us to read medieval texts in a new way – giving us insight into the perception of violence in the Middle Ages in the general population and the use of lethal violence by knights,” says Thomas Heebøll-Holm of the SAXO Institute at the University of Copenhagen, who researches the perception of violence in the late Middle Ages.

rest of it here.

[Tropical_ulcer]

interesting,I also wondered if soldiers of those age also suffered from ptsd,considering how they are portrayed in history whit big "greatness" like "this warrios who marched and killed so much arabs blabla honor blabla" and not showing things like if they have nightmares from it or something like that

also I thought that maybe medieval warfare wasnt as traumatic like today warfare due to be a meele combat face to face,considering modern comabt where you can die by a artillery shell you didnt saw coming and such,but anyway I am not a expert in that matter but is interesing to analize this stuff whit modern eyes

also obviously religion was the principal motivator for medieval soldiers,making sense of all the templars and other groups like that

[Silent Reader]

I would not say that religion was the prime motivator... as always the motivation was power and money - or simply because it was their job as stated - religion was more of an excuse.. even for the church. Knights afterall were mostly quite rich noblemen - as they could afford the horse and armor which they had to provide themselves in most cases. And the footsoldiers pretty much did not have a choice...

[Tropical_ulcer]

I would not say that religion was the prime motivator... as always the motivation was power and money - or simply because it was their job as stated - religion was more of an excuse.. even for the church. Knights afterall were mostly quite rich noblemen - as they could afford the horse and armor which they had to provide themselves in most cases. And the footsoldiers pretty much did not have a choice...

well I mean motivator as to not going crazy,the whole "figthing for god" thing that was mentioned,not much diferent from the tipical taliban figthing to get his 72 virgins

[BLUE THOR]

Even today people justify it to themselves to make it easier. "good vs evil" "gods will"... in the end its about creating a logical excuse for killing. Its not crazy at all.
You can go into it for money or a cause or whatever floats your boat, but in the end you have to justify to yourself that you did the right thing by killing another human.

[Redox]

also I thought that maybe medieval warfare wasnt as traumatic like today warfare due to be a meele combat face to face,considering modern comabt where you can die by a artillery shell you didnt saw coming and such,but anyway I am not a expert in that matter but is interesing to analize this stuff whit modern eyes

I would say that kind of combat was much, much more traumatic than combat today.

[BLUE THOR]

but the intensity of the campaign was often lessened by the fact you had to march to the next town for the next battle and had some time to process things. it also meant you had alot of time to square yourself away before returning home, for most combat soldiers today it can be a matter of 1-2 days before you get home, or maybe a week or two at the most.
The advantage of the longer return time is you have time to open up to people who have experienced what you have and can offer advise or an ear and be supportive because they do actually know what you are going through. bit hard for a young man to tell mum all about the trauma and expect understanding, and this kinda stuff grips you after you have had some down time, so it´d be a few days or so before the modern returned soldier starts to process these thoughts and issues. For the medieval soldier he could turn to his mates on the march home and knows he wont be judged poorly for it.

different worlds. Good to know that our ancestors were human though.

[KoTeMoRe]

but the intensity of the campaign was often lessened by the fact you had to march to the next town for the next battle and had some time to process things. it also meant you had alot of time to square yourself away before returning home, for most combat soldiers today it can be a matter of 1-2 days before you get home, or maybe a week or two at the most.
The advantage of the longer return time is you have time to open up to people who have experienced what you have and can offer advise or an ear and be supportive because they do actually know what you are going through. bit hard for a young man to tell mum all about the trauma and expect understanding, and this kinda stuff grips you after you have had some down time, so it´d be a few days or so before the modern returned soldier starts to process these thoughts and issues. For the medieval soldier he could turn to his mates on the march home and knows he wont be judged poorly for it.

different worlds. Good to know that our ancestors were human though.

Err you think people would open up easily like that? If anything if you were chatting with your esquire and some deep**** bigot came close you were into the poo poo with the crossmen. What people often forget, is that these men were not "commons". They were either noblemen or in the circles of nobility. The issues were more than often picked up by competing peers or by rivals. War at the time was not some "occupation". It was their only occupation. Taunting, ridiculing and backstabbing was the norm.

Now intensity? Man let's see, you eat rotten meat, suffer from poor hygene, see ****, hump a freaking armour set up. Have to put up with you suzerain, your king or prince, have all chances of getting crabs the size of kittens and when you're hurt even a little you pray it can't get worse. And...you mount a damn horse. We all know that's so benefic to your spine and bassin.

I'm telling you this without mentionning the Clergy. Because then it gets really really complicated.

So come again with "intensity"?

The number of taboos in the MA was such that most of you would suicide.

[a.godumov]

also I thought that maybe medieval warfare wasnt as traumatic like today warfare due to be a meele combat face to face,considering modern comabt where you can die by a artillery shell you didnt saw coming and such,but anyway I am not a expert in that matter but is interesing to analize this stuff whit modern eyes

I think that the medieval melee comabt would be more traumatic. You get to see the people around you being cut to pieces, slashed, stabbed, beheaded, bludgeoned to death, you see blood and guts all around you and you now that if you die it will most likely be a pretty ugly and painful death. I saw some pictures of medieval combat and it was pretty gore.

[Mordoror]

also I thought that maybe medieval warfare wasnt as traumatic like today warfare due to be a meele combat face to face,considering modern comabt where you can die by a artillery shell you didnt saw coming and such,but anyway I am not a expert in that matter but is interesing to analize this stuff whit modern eyes

Herrr Wut ??
Depends a lot of the opponent, historical period and your level in the army
Noblemen, Knight were often (but not always) spared as having them as hostages meant money

For the grunts it was walk here and there, get dysentery 99% of the time, fight with crapped pants from inside and outside, use rusted equipemnt, get stomped by your own knights eager to have their dîck contest with the opposing side knights, eat flour with maggots, get struck by an arrow, crossbow shot, spear or catapult rock coming from nowhere, go in the middle of a brawl with swords, axes, flails and maces with hundred of mens turning around you, shouting, cursing or crying and so much covered with mud, blood and guts parts that you can't recognize friend from foes and that for hours (not the 10-15 minutes of nowaday firefights) and hope *that you won't get scratched because it is either amputation for the best or gangrena and painful death for the worst
* that you are on the winning side because you skin is worthy nil, nada, zero, nothing and that if prisoner you'll be either throatsliced on the spot or tortured for the fun

Yeah sure not as "traumatic" as today

[BLUE THOR]

Err you think people would open up easily like that? If anything if you were chatting with your esquire and some deep**** bigot came close you were into the poo poo with the crossmen. What people often forget, is that these men were not "commons". They were either noblemen or in the circles of nobility. The issues were more than often picked up by competing peers or by rivals. War at the time was not some "occupation". It was their only occupation. Taunting, ridiculing and backstabbing was the norm.

Now intensity? Man let's see, you eat rotten meat, suffer from poor hygene, see ****, hump a freaking armour set up. Have to put up with you suzerain, your king or prince, have all chances of getting crabs the size of kittens and when you're hurt even a little you pray it can't get worse. And...you mount a damn horse. We all know that's so benefic to your spine and bassin.

I'm telling you this without mentionning the Clergy. Because then it gets really really complicated.

So come again with "intensity"?

The number of taboos in the MA was such that most of you would suicide.

and you know all of this how? read a couple of books on it?
fück off mate.

[Tropical_ulcer]

well I meant compared to modern technology where you can be killed whitout knowing where your enemy was and so on,not saying that medieval warfare wasnt traumatic,is just that in modern war there is less predictability or something like that since its fought at distances and using camouflages and the like compared to before when it was mostly face to face and trusting in faith and the like

after all everyone fear the unknow

[KoTeMoRe]

A couple of books? Oh well how will you preserve food with no cold chain? How do you prevent septicemy with no medecine? How do you operate without transfusion? How the fvck do you go from A to B?

Even without lectures any tit bit thinker can see how deep the **** was in the MA. Oh yeah and indeed I've read a couple of books. They're called gestas and cartae and what not. And most of the time they're big time propaganda. But you get the gist of any medieval fight.

Thank you for telling me to FO, now please go tell that to a certain monsieur Duby.

[Mordoror]

well I meant compared to modern technology where you can be killed whitout knowing where your enemy was and so on,not saying that medieval warfare wasnt traumatic,is just that in modern war there is less predictability or something like that since its fought at distances and using camouflages and the like compared to before when it was mostly face to face and trusting in faith and the like

after all everyone fear the unknow

That could be read through a double way lens
In modern warfare a lot of weapon system don't even allow you to see your ennemy : they are just vague shapes in a rifle mounted optic or just spots on an arty/mortar radar or some bright spots on a FLIR chopper or aircraft camera
So they lose their human aspect and as they are deshumanized they are easier to kill
And not everybody would go for the battle damage assesment where you have to count burned tank crew bodies or humans parts scattered around by a 155 HE shell
On the other hand, hand to hand battle in a confusing situation (i writte it again but hundred of guys around you, noise, blood everywhere, confusion limbs severed, a spear or sword coming from any direction) shouldn't have be easy to sustain
But also medieval people were more strong morally (faith was helping) and more used to pain (physical work and crude living conditions) and death (childhood mortality > 10-20%)

[Silent Reader]

as mentioned you also could be hit by an arrow or cannon ball or rock etc out of nowhere back then and then later on just think of line infantry marching towards the enemy.. knowing that the first line probably might not even make it to the first shot etc..