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Thread: Why kenya invaded somalia

  1. #16
    Member Ayub al Somali's Avatar
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    Look kenyati boy , first of all my name is Ayub , you have claimed in this very thread that your donkey killing military has defeated a Somali separarist movement that was supported by the Somali government in the 1960 here

    THEKYUKE
    Fyi,the previous actual battle experience was against Somalis,when the largely N.Eastern Somali province attempted to secede after independence and join their kin. The air force was tiny,the aircav non existant while army was no more than I think 6 regiments,max.,90% of the Somali in the 150,000 km2 province supported secession,while they were assisted by the then Somali army but still they were defeated.
    I am asserting that it is NOT true . I don't care about the stories that were told to you by your donkey killing uncle or cousins who served in the KDF , my source is here wikipedia which I would hope you would consider not a somali source .
    At the outset of the war, the government declared a State of Emergency. This consisted of allowing security forces to detain people up to 56 days without trial, confiscating the property of communities allegedly in retaliation for acts of violence, and restricting the right to assembly and movement.....Over the course of the war, the new Kenyan government became increasingly concerned by the growing strength of the Somali military...The Kenyan fear that the insurgency might escalate into an all-out war with phalanxes of well-equipped Somali troops was coupled with a concern about the new insurgent tactic of planting land mines....In 1967, Kenyan fears reached a fever pitch, and a special government committee was created to prepare for a full-scale war with Somalia.....In 1967, Zambian President Kenneth Kaunda mediated peace talks between Somali Prime Minister [*******#ba0000]Mohamed Egal[/COLOR] and Kenyatta. These bore fruit in October 1967, when the governments of Kenya and Somalia signed a Memorandum of Understanding (the Arusha Memorandum) that resulted in an official ceasefire, though regional security did not prevail until 1969
    So what happen here essentially is , Jomo Kenyatta asked Keneth Kaunda of Zambia to go talk to the Somalis in hopes of avoiding a war . You didn't defeat anybody
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shifta_War
    2 more points Kenyati boy .
    1/ The opinion of Zenawi and Museveni are not that irrelevant since YOU brought it first here
    THEKYUKE
    the allies in the West were surprised and allowed themselves to be swayed by regional pretenders,Zenawi and Museveni's collective low opinion of the KDF.
    You cannot mention them at will then pretend they don't really matter if I do the same .
    2/ Stop refering to my tribe in this discussion because my tribe does not settle in Kenya , I am from Somaliland formerly know as the british Somaliland way up there in the Northern part , you know , bordering Djibouti , so again you're a little confused here just like your beloved Kenyan Defence Forces anytime they step out of their barracks .
    I will disregard for the time being your characterization of the somali "psyche" based on an article written by an individual on a site I never visit .
    My main argument here is , you people {Kenya}can't fight{Museveni and Zenawi said the same } and surely can't help anybody .{you're one of the top corrupted and poorest countries in Africa , I'll bring as many charts as you want if necessary}
    Last edited by Ayub al Somali; 12-27-2011 at 11:26 AM.

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    I think you overdid it a bit in the end with that "you are the on of the top corrupted and poorest...", cause from what it looks like Kenya seems to be doing helluva lot better than Somalia.

  3. #18
    Senior Member The Dane's Avatar
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    Kenya is a good allied against Al-Shabab and other extremists/terrorists on the Horn of Afrika. Would probably do a lot more than they do now.. if they could afford it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ayub al Somali View Post
    Look kenyati boy , first of all my name is Ayub , you have claimed in this very thread that your donkey killing military has defeated a Somali separarist movement that was supported by the Somali government in the 1960 here

    THEKYUKE

    I am asserting that it is NOT true . I don't care about the stories that were told to you by your donkey killing uncle or cousins who served in the KDF , my source is here wikipedia which I would hope you would consider not a somali source .

    So what happen here essentially is , Jomo Kenyatta asked Keneth Kaunda of Zambia to go talk to the Somalis in hopes of avoiding a war . You didn't defeat anybody
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shifta_War
    2 more points Kenyati boy .
    1/ The opinion of Zenawi and Museveni are not that irrelevant since YOU brought it first here
    THEKYUKE

    You cannot mention them at will then pretend they don't really matter if I do the same .
    2/ Stop refering to my tribe in this discussion because my tribe does not settle in Kenya , I am from Somaliland formerly know as the british Somaliland way up there in the Northern part , you know , bordering Djibouti , so again you're a little confused here just like your beloved Kenyan Defence Forces anytime they step out of their barracks .
    I will disregard for the time being your characterization of the somali "psyche" based on an article written by an individual on a site I never visit .
    My main argument here is , you people {Kenya}can't fight{Museveni and Zenawi said the same } and surely can't help anybody .{you're one of the top corrupted and poorest countries in Africa , I'll bring as many charts as you want if necessary}
    WTF ever! Abdi,you attempted to secede using military means-was that attempt successful??? M7 is basically the regional carjacker,posing as statesman. It took Zenawi 3 years and a 100,000+ KIA to defeat tiny Eritrea. Neither their opinions nor yours are of any importance to informed people.
    I recognise one of your greatest conceits is that of dragon slaying warriorhood and so you compulsively exaggerate/lie and boast of non existant victories. Tell me one war Somalis have ever one.

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    Ayub As Somali, you clearly dont like Kenya, and I imagine you have emigrated to the US from Somaliland. Basically you come across as a ****wit.
    I know Somaliland is fine, and quite functional as a country and should be internationally recognised as one, but Kenya is far from the worst African nation and far from the most corrupt. Kenya has every right to protect its borders and I think you, if you consider yourself a Somali, should be happy they are taking on the scurge on humanity that is As Shabaab. Its a bit of a shame when your neighbours have to clean up your backyard for fear of the filth spilling over into theirs. The AU partners have contributed alot of manpower and equipment to Somalias security and need further support, they´ve lost alot of people trying to create stability in the Horn of Africa, and all you can do is spit on their efforts.
    it´d be nice if you went and sat down with a nice warm cup of shut the **** up and thought about that. Without a stable Somalia under the TFG or similar moderate power, how do you think Somaliland will go? sure, Puntland will give you a buffer, but we both know that Puntland doesnt have its **** in one sock, and will fall apart pretty quickly under the kind of pressure As Shabaab can lay down. So I would be applauding anything Kenya does. Its opened up a second front and split the As Shabaab war effort, thats a good thing in anyones book - except As Shabaab´s.

  6. #21
    Member Ayub al Somali's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Afterglow View Post
    I think you overdid it a bit in the end with that "you are the on of the top corrupted and poorest...", cause from what it looks like Kenya seems to be doing helluva lot better than Somalia.

    My point is Kenya cannot sustain a military incursion in Somalia , militarly and economically .
    One doesn't have to take my word for that , here is the pres of neighbouring Uganda 's opinion
    http://allafrica.com/stories/201109100011.html
    So far he seems to be right .
    As for the OP other statement here
    Meanwhile the Brits want to get involved. This info isn't being received with joy as its seen as a hijacking of a successful locally arranged political and military process for the gain of foreigners
    I think the brits who've always been protective of their little african "darlings" are try to save them , contrary to what he's saying .

  7. #22
    Senior Member The Dane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLUE THOR View Post
    Ayub As Somali, you clearly dont like Kenya, and I imagine you have emigrated to the US from Somaliland. Basically you come across as a ****wit.
    I know Somaliland is fine, and quite functional as a country and should be internationally recognised as one, but Kenya is far from the worst African nation and far from the most corrupt. Kenya has every right to protect its borders and I think you, if you consider yourself a Somali, should be happy they are taking on the scurge on humanity that is As Shabaab. Its a bit of a shame when your neighbours have to clean up your backyard for fear of the filth spilling over into theirs. The AU partners have contributed alot of manpower and equipment to Somalias security and need further support, they´ve lost alot of people trying to create stability in the Horn of Africa, and all you can do is spit on their efforts.
    it´d be nice if you went and sat down with a nice warm cup of shut the **** up and thought about that. Without a stable Somalia under the TFG or similar moderate power, how do you think Somaliland will go? sure, Puntland will give you a buffer, but we both know that Puntland doesnt have its **** in one sock, and will fall apart pretty quickly under the kind of pressure As Shabaab can lay down. So I would be applauding anything Kenya does. Its opened up a second front and split the As Shabaab war effort, thats a good thing in anyones book - except As Shabaab´s.
    Denmark is actually funding: the building/and running cost of a prison for Somalian pirates.. in Somali-land? Don't know how it's put in place, the deal ? Wasn,t with the 'government in the Mog, for sure..

  8. #23
    Member Ayub al Somali's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by THEKYUKE View Post
    WTF ever! Abdi,you attempted to secede using military means-was that attempt successful??? M7 is basically the regional carjacker,posing as statesman. It took Zenawi 3 years and a 100,000+ KIA to defeat tiny Eritrea. Neither their opinions nor yours are of any importance to informed people.
    I recognise one of your greatest conceits is that of dragon slaying warriorhood and so you compulsively exaggerate/lie and boast of non existant victories. Tell me one war Somalis have ever one.
    Kenyatti boy , you surely cannot be serious
    This thread was opened by you , recounting the military superiority of the KDF . My question is where is it ? I have never claimed Somalia to have won or waged war against anybody unlike you . You don't know anything about Eritrea , you don't know anything about Ethiopia and apparently you don't even know much about your own history .

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    I know alot of small projects are being run in Puntland and Somaliland, some directly foriegn government run and some by alternate means (private security / Military firms) such as the training of Antí-piracy Naval assets and security forces, and theres a couple of prisons for pirates being funded in both regions. Somaliland is quite functional and its suprising the international community wont recognise it as an official nation with the right of self governance. If anything Somaliland is a self made success story. Still, it had that opportunity to create itself out of the stability provided by the its neighbours (particularly Ethiopia prior to the actual insertion of AU soldiers). My point being, without contributions from neighbouring states, the whole thing would go **** up again, and therefore Kenya´s contributions to this CURRENT conflict (not referring to historical incursions) is a positive occurance as it splits As Shabaab´s efforts. It may not have a resounding impact, it may be successful, maybe not, but at least they are doing something.

  10. #25
    Member Ayub al Somali's Avatar
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    Bluethor
    It may not have a resounding impact, it may be successful, maybe not, but at least they are doing something
    With this I have no problem however the boastful demeanor of OP isn't quite reflective of the reality on the ground .

    1/Kenya has every right to protect its borders and I think you, if you consider yourself a Somali, should be happy they are taking on the scurge on humanity that is As Shabaab. Its a bit of a shame when your neighbours have to clean up your backyard for fear of the filth spilling over into theirs. The AU partners have contributed alot of manpower and equipment to Somalias security and need further support, they´ve lost alot of people trying to create stability in the Horn of Africa, 2/ and all you can do is spit on their efforts.
    it´d be nice if you went and sat down with a nice warm cup of shut the **** up and thought about that. 3/Without a stable Somalia under the TFG or similar moderate power, how do you think Somaliland will go? sure, Puntland will give you a buffer, but we both know that Puntland doesnt have its **** in one sock, and will fall apart pretty quickly under the kind of pressure As Shabaab can lay down.
    1/If we go by OP's version of events , Kenya's right to protect its border is not the primary motive of their endeavor . The competition posed by the Somali port of Kismayu to the kenyan Lamu seems to be the underlying reason .
    2/I have not said a bad word about the AU or AMISOM , I would like you to show me where .
    3/ A stable TFG , can only be a postive thing for us , since we've learned to live without it for 21 yrs now .We do not need f 15's , "mud movers" and other military equipment excuse for incompetence to successfully contain the threat these militant extremist groups can have on our population . We know their rhetoric , we know who they are and we take care of it . In conclusion , I am not gonna ask you to STFU , you're free to say whatever you want , but I'd advise you to learn a little bit more about the dymanics at play before you can form an opinion .

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    ANZAC Moderator Ngati Tumatauenga's Avatar
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    Everyone can calm down and stop the name calling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ayub al Somali View Post

    My point is Kenya cannot sustain a military incursion in Somalia , militarly and economically .
    One doesn't have to take my word for that , here is the pres of neighbouring Uganda 's opinion
    http://allafrica.com/stories/201109100011.html
    So far he seems to be right .
    As for the OP other statement here

    I think the brits who've always been protective of their little african "darlings" are try to save them , contrary to what he's saying .
    Abdi,I told you;the opinion of a carjacker whose recent career includes the deaths of 3mn Congolese isn't important. Secondly when he trash talks the KDF he's angling to be the SOLE regional errand boy for Anglo interests. Like most people who talk a lot,you know little of what you speak,little african darlings,my ****! I'll try to educate you and other forumers.
    In 2005,the KNS Jasiri,the first true blue water craft was to be delivered to the KN. Suddenly a hysterical media instigated backlash ensued. People who know as much of defense planning expenditure as they do of Vietnamese literature screamed corruption,the ship was a converted tuna boat etc etc while the then Brit high commissioner unwisely let the cat out of the bag referring to Kenyan officialdom 'vomiting on our shoes.' Things got so bad he was nearly declared persona non grata. That year,for the first time ever,Brit army live forex were cancelled.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    The truth is,the 300 foot corvette was extremely competitive costing 4.2 bn KSHS.,then 50 mn $. Also,it was noticed those NGOs bleating the loudest were funded by the Brits who were infuriated they lost out on the tender. During the Moi era,all military contracts were theirs. Price wasn't an issue. How much do you Vosper Thorneycraft,builders of the 180 ft gunboats would have charged? I heard an unconfirmed report they quoited 16 bn KSHS, around 200 mn $.
    The next episode of Brit fcukery was seen during the Ukrainian tank ship drama. Very reliable info from Kenya and the Ukraine clearly states there were 2 crews. The Somalis who took the ransom and a mysterious obviously non Somali 10 man take down crew,covered in overalls,gloves and face masks who never spoke a word and used sign language throughout the 5 minute hijacking. Having secured the ship, the 'pirates' then showed up and the crew disappeared without a word.
    Stay with me,because this may be difficult to follow but its not algebra. This was the last consignment of T-72s,the KDF having taken delivery previously of some 3 battalions worth. The world knows Kenya to be users of the Vickers 3,an 80s designed Brit made MBT.However,there's one problem for any realistic Kenyan defense planner-its an 8 mn$ piece of equipment,while the t-72,definitely 2 notches qualitatively below is 1.5 mn $. Which model will the KDF buy? The Brits couldn't accept that.
    So when you see them suddenly talking about 'security needs and humanitarian concerns in Somalia after rubbishing the KDF read between the lines. They're being outflanked -by history.

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    Its a new year,several things have come to pass. The KDF now controls almost a 100,000 km2 of Somalia,namely the entire border ***** and the 2 Jubbas. Casualties have been very light for a reinforced brigade,less than 20 KIA since the mid-october jump off-no surprise since Somalis,not without teeth,have always been WAYYYY overrated as fighters by armchair analysts and other pseudo 'experts'. The new Z-9s have performed well enough in theatre and the Garissa crash report that killed all 4 onboard is still incomplete. Piracy has also much reduced-a month after hostilities,pirates were accepting up to 75% off of ransom demands.
    The London Peace Conference revealed the Brit hand. When the operation began they were among the first to foretell doom. Once things ran more or less according to plan,they chipped in with much unsolicited advice,the gist of which was 'Seize Kismayu,do whatever it takes!' Why would anyone turn Kismayu into Grozny or Fallujah? Observant Kenyans,however weren't surprised. Attack,bomb ,destroy and alienate thousands strengthening ALS,thereby leaving things as they have been for the past 20 years.
    Informed people saw the conference as the last attempt by Britain to revive its clout in this region. Outflanked by growing indigenous capacities of local economies and adroit Chinese geopolitical footwork they can see their influence fading rapidly and will stop at nothing to reverse the situation.Eg.,in the Moi years their military equipment was supplied often without a tender;things have changed-since 2003 NO BIG BRIT METAL HAS BEEN BOUGHT;a sea change from the 80s and 90s.Their allies, Uganda in Mog. since 2007 and Ethiopian have been given new impetus by the KDF incursion. Only recently,for the first time ever ,Uganda left their tiny enclave in a recon in force while the Ethios restricted themselves to the usual heavy handed tactics with a foray into Baidoa.
    All in all, the script is still infolding well.Destroy ALS, shut down Dadaab,the biggest camp in the world and return the refugees and set up a friendly buffer state.

  14. #29
    Senior Member Al-Bundy's Avatar
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    I find it pretty ridiculous that almost all Somali diaspora always have something bad to say for Ethiopians, Kenyans who are fed up with the violence and anarchy spilling over their borders.

    Right now their biggest enemy(worry) is above all Ethiopia but not Al-shabab, famine, civil war, decades of anarchy.... piracy...etc.

    Kudos!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Al-Bundy View Post
    I find it pretty ridiculous that almost all Somali diaspora always have something bad to say for Ethiopians, Kenyans who are fed up with the violence and anarchy spilling over their borders.

    Right now their biggest enemy(worry) is above all Ethiopia but not Al-shabab, famine, civil war, decades of anarchy.... piracy...etc.

    Kudos!!!
    You've noticed that peculiar penchant. Having spent time with these guys,I've come to recognise it as a compensatory defense mechanism. If they had to say 'Thank You,' to everyone who ever fed/clothed/rescued/washed/allowed them to emigrate they wouldn't have the time for anything else. Imagine all the people who at one time have intervened at one time of other in Somalia: America/the UK/ the Scandinavians/Australia/Ethiopia/Kenya/Oxfam/Actionaid/Save the Children....... maybe even the ASPCA at some point!

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