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Thread: Sarkozy vs. Hollande

  1. #1
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    Default Sarkozy vs. Hollande

    I would like to direct this to the forum's French members mainly, who they think will be the best option for France? With the general elections coming soon, Socialist candidate Hollande seems to be commanding a lead in most polls. I've read that Hollande wants to renegotiate or scrap the austerity measures already agreed upon. What does this mean for Greece, and for the rest of EU?

    I'm curious to ask the French members, what the French Left believes is the cause of much of the current financial crisis. Do they understand that massive entitlement programs and social services can no longer be sustained, or is it the same leftist mantra that the banks are the problem and more taxes on the rich are needed? What exactly does the French Socialists have as a vision for France/EU? Thanks for any input.

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    Senior Member leloup46's Avatar
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    the socialists as usual don't have any vision for France except keeping an oversized bureaucracy (their main voter base) in power

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    Back in full force! Mat_fr's Avatar
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    Well we saw the magnificient "vision" of Sarkozy during 5 years.
    That's enough for me.

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    Junior Member Basile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mas-36 View Post
    I would like to direct this to the forum's French members mainly, who they think will be the best option for France?
    None of them
    Quote Originally Posted by mas-36 View Post
    With the general elections coming soon, Socialist candidate Hollande seems to be commanding a lead in most polls. I've read that Hollande wants to renegotiate or scrap the austerity measures already agreed upon. What does this mean for Greece, and for the rest of EU?
    Hollande will probably implement "light" austerity policies, I don't know what he can change in Greece (Merkel, the IMF and the banks are in charge there)

    Quote Originally Posted by mas-36 View Post
    I'm curious to ask the French members, what the French Left believes is the cause of much of the current financial crisis. Do they understand that massive entitlement programs and social services can no longer be sustained,
    Massive entitlement programs can be sustained with some reforms and a better efficiency. The current crisis does not in any way come from the social security system.
    Quote Originally Posted by mas-36 View Post
    or is it the same leftist mantra that the banks are the problem
    The banks are just one of many problems but a huge one, and things are likely to get worse in the coming months.
    Quote Originally Posted by mas-36 View Post
    and more taxes on the rich are needed?
    Yes, more taxes on the rich are needed, Sarkozy's tax cuts were stupid and badly timed at best.
    Quote Originally Posted by mas-36 View Post
    What exactly does the French Socialists have as a vision for France/EU? Thanks for any input.
    The French Socialists have no vision for France, no vision for the EU but are in favor of the eurobonds (which are in my opinion an utterly dumb idea)

    My two cents

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    Senior Member Telmar's Avatar
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    Sarkozy took terrible decisions in the first years of his presidency, and was not focused enough on looming threats such as the deficit. Some of the people he works with are top class: Francois Fillon, the Prime Minister very cool headed and hard working, Valerie Pecresse managed to move the environment in which universities evolve, and there were good reforms such as the retirement reform that will stay (the Socialists are contradicting themselves on what they will do, they just have their electoral stance right now).

    But Sarko's atitude has ruined all that. If he had behaved from day 1 the way he behaves today, especially on the economical front, his reelection would have been IMHO almost secured. Instead countless stupid flamboyant ideas used up time and money: the national identity debates, the public TV debate, and while opening a can of ideas every week, few projects are finished or thought through.

    No new taxes on the rich are needed IMO. We have to understand in France that even if we believe in redistributing wealth, it needs to be created. The rich have money because we let them be rich. But more over, it's not the rich that suffer from tax hikes. A survey showed that small and medium sized French companies pay 35% corporate tax (the official rate) while larger ones paid only 15% because they had the means to hire wise a$$ fiscal aides. It's the same with the rich. The socialist posterboy, Yannick Noah, former top tennis player and singer, very rich, himself left France not to pay taxes. He is according to some a a tax criminal. Some reference there. Food for thought for those who think it's good to raise taxes.

    But then again, if the French want to make very poor decisions, it's their choice. I don't pay taxes in France and take care of all my costs. But it's sad to see that we are the only ones whose left wing parties still talks about the "leftist family" including communists and hard leftists who have massacred people all around the world. I long for real social democrats who are not so thirsty for power they will promise anything and make alliances with some of the ugliest people France has to offer.
    Last edited by Telmar; 02-12-2012 at 02:59 PM. Reason: many typos...sorry

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat_fr View Post
    Well we saw the magnificient "vision" of Sarkozy during 5 years.
    That's enough for me.
    I agree with you, I think he's done anyways, and trying to get extreme right wing votes will not save him.

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    Senior Member Mordoror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat_fr View Post
    Well we saw the magnificient "vision" of Sarkozy during 5 years.
    That's enough for me.
    +100

    Anyway they are left and right all the same nomenklatura. They have all lost credibility. And whoever gets elected will be anyway bound by the economical situation. So all promises of the campaign are only that. We have a motto in France "les promesses n'engagent que ceux qui les croient"
    If electors are dumb enough to swallow one side or another's promises that's their problem. But i don't see things changing too much (and when you discuss with top level people and not the average street, you understand that pretty quickly)

    To be frank we don't have anymore political elite (but given the reading here, that's quite the same thing everywhere else around the world). They are all bureaucrats, technocrats and selfish careerists. None has a true vision of the Nation with big N. So whover gets elected ......mehhhh

    The only area where things may change is in the military and diplomatic area (but that's not something that will influence the vote of french people)
    If the left is elected there will be less external interventions i think (and removal of our troops quicker from Astan). And the Atlantist turn of N.S will be reduced or at least smoothed.
    Concerning our armed forces given that both Left and Right killed their budget for the past 30 years .....there will be nothing more or better

  8. #8
    Senior Member TG211's Avatar
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    Sarkozy is a compulsive liar and think of the french people as a bunch of idiots good to manipulate to keep his party and his friends in power.

    The left runs in circles and has nothing constructive to offer. They'd even do more damage than Sarkozy.

    Marine LePen would sign the fall of France.

    ...

    In this election, I don't feel like I know who to give my vote to... All candidates dissappoint me. Every single one of them.

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    Senior Member Chimera's Avatar
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    Sarkozy has shown us his true colors during the last 5 years with his son at the EPAD, the Identity debates, the Karachi case, the Woerth Bettencourt case, his decision on the Fiscal Pack... I could go along forever... Trying to catch Marine Le Pen's votes won't work this time. People know who he is now.

    Hollande is the kind of guy who promises pretty much nothing and has become incredibely annoying with his Mitterrandist stance/voice/style, his message his empty and I don't see anyone worth voting for in May.

    In a nutshell, **** them all.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat_fr View Post
    Well we saw the magnificient "vision" of Sarkozy during 5 years.
    That's enough for me.
    -100000000
    Try, just one sec, to think about the magnificent 5 years of Bécassine du Poitou would have been.

    Now, I think with his superpowers, Hollande will succeed to make the majority of french people miss Sarko in less than 2 years, and I'm ready to take the bet with every french dudes on this forum.
    The socialist's economic program is just dangerous for France. The situation in France has some similarities with 1981 (when Mitterand got elected, after a central-right wing government failed to respond to an economic crisis), except that now, we can't use the devaluation anymore, and the "virage de la rigueur" of 83 will be soft compared of what the PS will have to do, after the total economic cluster **** they'll provoke if they implement their economic program.

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    Senior Member xav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mordoror View Post
    Anyway they are left and right all the same nomenklatura. They have all lost credibility. And whoever gets elected will be anyway bound by the economical situation. So all promises of the campaign are only that. We have a motto in France "les promesses n'engagent que ceux qui les croient"
    If electors are dumb enough to swallow one side or another's promises that's their problem. But i don't see things changing too much (and when you discuss with top level people and not the average street, you understand that pretty quickly)

    To be frank we don't have anymore political elite (but given the reading here, that's quite the same thing everywhere else around the world). They are all bureaucrats, technocrats and selfish careerists. None has a true vision of the Nation with big N. So whover gets elected ......mehhhh
    +1, agree completely

    Quote Originally Posted by GeoK View Post
    -100000000
    Try, just one sec, to think about the magnificent 5 years of Bécassine du Poitou would have been.
    +1000 couldn't agree more.

    That said, I am not rich enough to be a socialist...

  12. #12
    buck duck huck luck muck puck ruck suck tuck yuck fuuuuuuuu muck's Avatar
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    From an outsiders point of view, Sarkozy seems the lesser of two evils. In times like this a Socialist government would deliver a death blow to France especially if Hollande should chose to stick to his unrealizeable promises.
    And from a German's point of view I favour Sarkozy. I'm delighted at the good relations of France and Germany under the current governments and I know for certain that a lot of Germans feel the same.

  13. #13
    Senior Member leloup46's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muck View Post
    From an outsiders point of view, Sarkozy seems the lesser of two evils. In times like this a Socialist government would deliver a death blow to France especially if Hollande should chose to stick to his unrealizeable promises.
    And from a German's point of view I favour Sarkozy. I'm delighted at the good relations of France and Germany under the current governments and I know for certain that a lot of Germans feel the same.
    absolutely right

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeoK View Post
    -100000000
    Try, just one sec, to think about the magnificent 5 years of Bécassine du Poitou would have been.
    Well i hated her also, but we'll never know what she could have done. To answer Mas 36 question i'll vote for François Hollande without enthusiasm, because i've had enough of Sarkozy and all the other options (Lepen, Bayrou, Eva Joly, Melenchon etc) suck even more. Too bad DSK is a *** maniac, he might have done a good job with the economy.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chimera View Post
    Sarkozy has shown us his true colors during the last 5 years with his son at the EPAD, the Identity debates, the Karachi case, the Woerth Bettencourt case, his decision on the Fiscal Pack... I could go along forever...
    I see that after 5 years of rabid anti-sarkozism the arguments against him are appalling, the facts don't count anymore, you just have to drop some meaningless sentences and the case is close.
    EPAD: a non-paid job, and it's not his father who push him to go in for.
    Identity debate: hijacked by the con******* cowards from the left.
    the Karachy case: find one concrete evidence that links Sarkozy to the bombing, just one.
    Woerth Bettencourt : the inquiry is still in progress, but I guess that the presumption of innocence is a principle that's just good for socialist rapist, right ?
    the fiscal pack : I'm sure that you are the kind of guy that the sarko's economic politics have hit the hardest, you're a 99%, almost a proletarian. But I guess you don't need to work extra hours for the money that comes with the infamous sarko's fiscal pack.
    I could go along forever too ...

    Congrats to the leftist french MSM, you have succeeded, one doesn't need anymore to use his brain to be anti-sarko. And because there are a lot of retards who bought this, Holland has the best chance to be elected, and I deeply regret it, for my country and the million of jobless people that his economic policy will add to an already too high number.

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