Reply With Quoteand indian coastal Guard? In our Law you have to prove someone is guilty, not innocent.Originally Posted by jAwAn!
Did Italian government already released any satellite image???
Even if it happened in special econimic zone or international waters .. i belive indian navy has to right to action over the killing of its citizen going by the rules
quoting wiki --- "Ships sailing the high seas are generally under the jurisdiction of the flag state;[2] however, when a ship is involved in certain criminal acts, such as piracy,[3] any nation can exercise jurisdiction under the doctrine of universal jurisdiction " Piracy is nothing but an act of criminal violence at sea...
so at this point theoretically the ship ENRICA LEXIA is the armed pirate ship attacking unarmed indian fishing boat...
and indian coastal Guard? In our Law you have to prove someone is guilty, not innocent.Did Italian government already released any satellite image???
Oh come on...are you for real? I am sure you can contribute to this thread with something which add some value to it and cut the nonsense...
My friend.. im just putting an argument as the main discussion is about whether in territorial or international waters ...its a valid legal point ... what is the definition of piracy???
how ever i wish things get solved as soon.
the latest news reported from the Chamber of Commerce talk about another vessel, similar to Enrica Lexie present in the same waters. The name of the greek vessel is Olympic Flair. Indian Coastal Guard was informed of the presence of this vessel but did not release this information to the press.
Question is what consists of a hostile action on part of Fisherman? Fishermen are out days looking out for fish and can be quite possessive about protecting their catch. Having said that I am still perplexed as to how from a distance of 100-150 meters that the Italian crew could not spot that these fishermen were unarmed that too during the time of the day when the incident took place. Not a naval expert but use of deadly force is usually a last resort, when the pirates are about to board the ship and given the location they were in (whether in Indian or International waters), it was highly unlikely that they were pirates.
italian sources confirm from gps data that the merchant ship was in international waters, and was tricked into getting near port with false information (indian coast guard recalled the ship back to identify a pirate ship).
and still, several days after the incident there is no proof that the fishermen where killed by italian soldier!! no autopsy, no bodies, no bullets ,no blackbox/gps data.
where is the official info?
i also find patetic the people protesting near the captured soldiers, like for every indian that commit a crime in italy people start protesting near the embassy or something like that
What Italian 'sources' would this be? To be honest your attitude stinks. You make up sources without links to back it up and then cry over the fact that you haven't seen an autopsy report or anything else like that. You can't have it both ways.
here they are i cant find an english translation horewer,but these are the major newspaper in italy.
http://www.corriere.it/esteri/12_feb...6180c4ab.shtml
http://www.tgcom24.mediaset.it/mondo...mpetente.shtml
http://www3.lastampa.it/esteri/sezio...o/lstp/443156/
http://www.repubblica.it/esteri/2012...7/?ref=HREC1-1
this one is about the discrepancies of the italian and indian version
http://www.corriere.it/esteri/12_feb...6180c4ab.shtml
and in english
http://www.corriere.it/english/12_fe...6180c4ab.shtml
the gps position of the italian ship that was in international waters was confirmed by italian minister Giulio Terzi.
my attitude is better that accusing people without proof...hope i have satisfied your curiosity.
Last edited by IamMarco; 02-20-2012 at 06:21 PM. Reason: added link english
Thanks. Well obviously if the bullets in the ship and dead fishermen do not match those from the guns of the marines then something else happened. I'm sure the Italian authorities in India are being provided any evidence produced. I for one will wait for the offical investigation before pointing fingers. I wouldn't trust the media on either side, both seem to have 'back doors' to sensitive information. And obviously the ship had little choice to go to Kochi. The Indian authorities had a report that a fishing boat had been shot up by a merchant ship, not a naval vessel. The coast guard had a duty to investigate.
Going through the reporting from both sides, there seems to be a discrepancy in the Italian version and the Indian version. From what I get from different Italian papers:
(it gets confusing)
a) at the time being reported by the Indian authorities the ship was at a completely different place ?
b) according to Italians their shooting incident happened at a completely different time and the fishermen died in another incident (and Italian press also mentions another pirate incident which happened there ?)
I haven't been able to find any mention of any other pirate incident near Kerala, can anyone help ?
The marines are in custody of authorities till March 5th. As it happens to be in India, usually the autopsy reports rarely make it to the press, that too in cases where the cause of death seems to be unknown. In this case the fishermen died of gun shot wounds, nothing much to see there. From what I understand, authorities only have access to the marines and not the ship (someone correct me if that has happened)
In India, criminals, when caught red handed, are often lynched before the authorities get to them. I think you will find peaceful protests more tasteful as compared to mob justice.i also find patetic the people protesting near the captured soldiers, like for every indian that commit a crime in italy people start protesting near the embassy or something like that
Last edited by twinblade; 02-20-2012 at 10:03 PM.
There was a robbery attempt the same day at 2150 IST off Kochi port. It is a physical impossibility that the fishermen died in that incident and the marines framed for it. Go back to page 5, post #64 and take a look at the timeline and see for yourself.
Other than that, we are running around circles in this thread. There has not been any new developments or proof released to the press since Saturday.
The weapons are yet to be recovered; so I gather from:
http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper...cle2914885.ece
Ah thanks. So that puts the version being circulated in Italian media in question.
Just in TV:
Italy to move Kerala High Court today; Supreme Court advocate Sunil Dutt to appear for them. They say there are some discrepancies in the FIR and remand report. Apparently, FIR says 33 NM and yesterday's remand report says 22.5 NM. The bone of contention now seems to be the jurisdiction in contiguous zone. India says we have; Italy says they have. The TV reporter says Italy has a case. Also, the marines are in police custody for 3 days. Apparently, they will be taken out to the ship today to recover arms.
Let's see what the HC says on the matter.
The lynch mob was out there also yesterday when they tried to move the 2 marines to the house of the magistrate, according to witness. The fishermen declared ready to block the oiler, in case it should leave the port.
And where are the red hands? I mean, so far no ballistics report and no evidence yet given to italian attorneys and consulate.
Vessel position is a key point but here we are talking about a major proof. They have the bodies, the bullets and the guns (soon available). From my point of view now it's all open: if they can prove that were the marines who shot the fishermen, all the defence from Italy side will evaporate, since their line is that they were not involved at all. If it fails and they won't have a ballistic positive confirmation, well, then it will be clear that indian investigators had screwed big time and tried to frame the only vessel who responded to their radio request and let the real killers go clean.
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