Two fishermen shot dead by Italian ship off Kerala coast

[sgtfcm]

It is IBN reporting about comments by an Indian politician, who is known for his controversial remarks and is the leader of a party of which he seems to be the only member. He is a joker.

He might be a joker but he is also a claymore when he hits the first page of an indian website which can be read and reported by italian readers and newspapers.

[Darklord]

@sgt, I quoted an example to show that your worries about a random politician is misplaced and that there are organizations and persons with actual power involved from both sides.

He might be a joker but he is also a claymore when he hits the first page of an indian website which can be read and reported by italian readers and newspapers.

Certainly not more explosive than a picture in an Italian website purportedly showing Indians burning Italian flag?

[hulaku]

He might be a joker but he is also a claymore when he hits the first page of an indian website which can be read and reported by italian readers and newspapers.

The fact I stated has been borne out by two other Indian members also within minutes of you posting this. I agree he is using very harsh words, which comes natural to him being an attention whore but the fact is in a democracy you cannot gag politicians or the press.

Of course the press will make most of it as they also want to sell news, the more controversial, the better.

My point is that instead of harping on what the press, Indian or Italian, are saying we should concentrate on what the courts and the investigators are saying. And hope for a mutually satisfactory solution is reached on this issue.

[sgtfcm]

@sgt, I quoted an example to show that your worries about a random politician is misplaced and that there are organizations and persons with actual power involved from both sides.
Certainly not more explosive than a picture purportedly showing Indians burning Italian flag?

Darklord, I like the challenge because I already learnt you're a clever person. Anytime there is something you feel not comfortable to comment, you throw there a question. It's ok. Indeed the fake (wrongly described) picture was really a bad move. But it was posted on a minor newspaper/blog. The statement of an indian politician counts more to me, but I give you that.
Let's go back to EU involvement, don't skip that. Do you really think EU would ever cover the 2 marines? I don't really think so. Don't you see you're a victim too of "conspiracy theories" writing that ? only because you, like your press, want to prove the 2 marines guilty.

[sgtfcm]

The fact I stated has been borne out by two other Indian members also within minutes of you posting this. I agree he is using very harsh words, which comes natural to him being an attention whore but the fact is in a democracy you cannot gag politicians or the press.

Of course the press will make most of it as they also want to sell news, the more controversial, the better.

My point is that instead of harping on what the press, Indian or Italian, are saying we should concentrate on what the courts and the investigators are saying. And hope for a mutually satisfactory solution is reached on this issue.

I agree with you. However there is an important detail. There is too much at stake now and heads would roll if from one side or the other something was ****ed up, covered or altered. There is no way out and the crime scene is cold. No other potential perpetrators in sight. It is not something that could happen only in India, it happens everywhere: in Italy, in the US, etc.
My concern is that your police concentrated ONLY on the italian ship. We should remember here HOW they got her in indian waters...with a "smart move" and the italian volunteerily leaving int'l waters and docking at Kochi. They let all the other possible leads run cold. Now it would be too late. So now there is only one possible way to save their face and their head: it must be the marines. Am I wrong? Because so far there is NO evidence at all.
Another point: how could they prove the shooters "were" the 2 detained marines? Their words? Come on ...as I already underlined, they are the team leader and his sergeant. It's all inconsistent.

[Darklord]

Thank you for the high regard you hold me in, which I assure you, is a wrong notion .

As for the EU involvement, I relied on multiple sources and I leave it to you to be the judge of the conspiracy theory part of it:

Souce: Indian (IBN)
EU moves to help free Italian sailors held in India

Source: Foreign (Europe Online)
EU to help Italy resolve case of marines jailed in India

Source: Foreign (R e u t e r s)
EU moves to help free Italian sailors held in India

Source: Foreign (MSNBC)
EU moves to help free Italian sailors held in India

Like I said, I used it as an example of the involvement of far, far greater powers than Swamy.

only because you, like your press, want to prove the 2 marines guilty.

That is just sad, because I took the pains of explaining my personal position to you a few pages back. I have not changed my position since then.

[wheeleuss]

sorry! my bad ... mistake

[wheeleuss]

Yes, I do know what I am talking about, while the standard period of times of detention without any charges being brought, vary from country to country, (most of them being over 21 days,) and as for getting court authorisation to hold somebody again the law varys from country to country, however, most countrys do require the investigating authority to apply to a Court of Law to extend the period of detention after that time limit has been reached, this case is NOT exactly the standard run of the mill case is it, involving the deaths of people on a boat at sea, allegedly fired upon from another boat / ship at sea.

As for insinuations, if the cap fits wear it, my comments and opinions are based with regards actual posts
in this very topic.

Connaught Ranger

Please stop writing nonsens and specious bla bla bla

"21 days"? !!
"most countries"? where ? In India?
"after that limit"? We all know that the Court has just been invested of the matter.
"this case is NOT exactly the standard run of the mill case is it, involving the deaths of people on a boat at sea, allegedly fired upon from another boat / ship at sea." Do you know of some form of special jurisdiction for this cases.

"...my comments and opinions are based with regards actual posts in this very topic." .... the icing on the cake.

Bey bey

[hulaku]

Please stop writing nonsens and specious bla bla bla

"21 days"? !!
"most countries"? where ? In India?
"after that limit"? We all know that the Court has just been invested of the matter.
"this case is NOT exactly the standard run of the mill case is it, involving the deaths of people on a boat at sea, allegedly fired upon from another boat / ship at sea." Do you know of some form of special jurisdiction for this cases.

"...my comments and opinions are based with regards actual posts in this very topic." .... the icing on the cake.

Bey bey

As most people are saying why cant you keep your discussion civil.

CR is a neutral party in this discussion and he is more than welcome to participate in the discussion and give a view untainted by nationalistic fervour.

[Atlantic Friend]

Hulaku, you're the MP member on the spot, and with a good head on your shoulders. How would you sum up the state of the investigation?

[Nirvana]

All i can say is ... i have full faith in indian judiciary ..... no matter what others may think.... just wait for some time and Justice will Prevail

[hulaku]

Hulaku, you're the MP member on the spot, and with a good head on your shoulders. How would you sum up the state of the investigation?

To be honest I have not been following the investigation as closely as I would have liked to.

I think Darklord has a much better understanding of this particular issue as he is from Kerala (i assume) and I am up north where this issue is not so hot.

That being said I think that the investigation is going at the usual Indian pace and they are being very careful of what the investigators say or do as they know this case has international limelight on it. Also the Italian team has its eyes on each and every action of the police and the courts.

As for the Marines they are currently in the jail where they are housed seperately in the section for Political prisoners (read VIP) and the prison authorities as per court order provide Italian food to them.

Maybe Darklord can fill in for me.

[Darklord]

Test firing of the weapons to obtain comparison bullets began yesterday and that the results will be out by next week. That is all the news in the media because they got a political bombshell to occupy prime time news since today morning. Don't expect any development till Monday because this is a two-day holiday weekend (second Saturday of the month + Sunday).

As for the Marines they are currently in the jail where they are housed seperately in the section for Political prisoners (read VIP) and the prison authorities as per court order provide Italian food to them.

In a cell that used to be occupied by one former minister, facilities for physical workout, Italian food from a restaurant in city, and no prison clothes.

[IanSolo]

.... just wait for some time and Justice will Prevail

I really hope that the truth will prevail.

For our marines and for justice for the killed men.

[fish&chips]

Zee News (India):

The Italian ship owner has approached the Kerala High Court to release their ship since the weapons and other material have now been collected and the company is suffering from great losses. "Police have given a no objection certificate but on technical reasons the authorities were not permitting the ship to leave the Kochi Port, the petition said. "