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Thread: Allied crimes during WW2

  1. #61
    L O L A JCR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLUE THOR View Post
    Killing civvies is killing civvies.. doesnt matter if its a reciprocal act or not. Similar to shooting POW from your enemy because your enemy shoots your people they took prisoner. Two wrongs dont make it right. So, both sides of the war needed to be held accountable for the acts, regardless of the reasoning behind killing non-combatants.
    That is certainly the morally right point of view but it was not international law in WW2.
    Today it is but did it really change much?

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCR View Post
    Today it is but did it really change much?
    Yes I believe warfare is fundamentally different now in regard to civilans than it was back then.

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    Senior Member Mordoror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redox View Post
    Yes I believe warfare is fundamentally different now in regard to civilans than it was back then.
    I don't
    God bless we don't have to live a new total war. Because in that case, civie or not civie, conventions or not conventions, there wouldn't be a lot of difference with WWII except the scale and power of weapons used

    Just check the stats anyway : those who die the most in our modern wars are civies
    Before industrialization of war the balance was leaning toward combattants/soldiers/fighters (up to 1914 it was something like 80-90% military casualties for 10-20% civies)

    After 1918 it began to lean toward more and more civilian casualties.
    During WWII should be something close to 50%/50%

    In post WWII it easilly leaned toward 10-20% military and 80-90% civies so totaly inversed ratio

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redox View Post
    Yes I believe warfare is fundamentally different now in regard to civilans than it was back then.
    Today, human rights are nothing more than a propaganda tool and that seems to include the ICC.
    While NATO might cautiously avoid collateral damage, it still supports rebels who shell cities with rockets.

  5. #65
    Senior Member Tyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LineDoggie View Post
    We didnt throw millions into ovens, your Volk did. To whine about Poor Poor Germany being Bombed by those mean allies is such a Joke. Its like a Rapist being raped in Prison & complaining about being raped.
    So its not a warcrime since "we" invented it?

    Is shooting someone not murder if the shot person is chinese? After all they invented the whole stuff.


    So you like bombing cities. Ok no problem from my side.
    How about what most pilots did. After all they couldnt return with bombs on their plane. So they dropped them on towns that had nothing to with the war effort.
    You probably love that. And I can understand that. Dead germans are good germans.




    Also my Volk? Are you really going there? Thats kind of retarded.

  6. #66
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    Why do you grace him with a reply?
    LD has this post in a text file somewhere and posts it whenever WW2 or bombing or so pops up.
    I've read this same post with minor alterations a dozen times or more.
    On the other hand, old people tend to get repetitive and preachy
    Leave him his pride of knowing of a single word of german

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCR View Post
    Why do you grace him with a reply?
    LD has this post in a text file somewhere and posts it whenever WW2 or bombing or so pops up.
    I've read this same post with minor alterations a dozen times or more.
    On the other hand, old people tend to get repetitive and preachy
    Leave him his pride of knowing of a single word of german
    And young know nothings like yourself are condemned to repeat your mistakes since you wont own up to them

  8. #68
    Senior Member LineDoggie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redox View Post
    So the allies can never commit a warcrime as long as Germany did something similar first? Sorry that logic is downright absurd.
    Also I dont think its a great achievement to be less bad as Germany in this war, like you seem to think. With these kind of comparisons you dont do the allies a favor actually.

    Oh and Germany was not allowed to further exists as a souvereign state after WW2. It was divided into occupation zones which were incorporated into the defense and economy of the 2 now opposing factions of the victors.
    I never said that in fact I posted about a Specific US committed War crime. Tyon tired to be a flippant smart ass with his nuremburg trial comment and I responded.

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    Senior Member CPL Trevoga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redox View Post
    Yes I believe warfare is fundamentally different now in regard to civilans than it was back then.
    War in its nature is a crime. Most of the casualties in the recent conflicts are non-combatants.

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    Senior Member Smok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan2004 View Post
    My grandfather was with 45ID at Dachau, when they shot all those SS thugs in the camp.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dachau_massacre
    It wasn't a crime. It was justice.

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    No, it wasn't. What kind of weird point of view is this? Stop trolling and start with some arguments.

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    Senior Member Mordoror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smok View Post
    It wasn't a crime. It was justice.
    Hum
    Justice is when you prosecute somebody. It wasn't the case there. So it wasn't justice (at least no in modern definition of it, after that if you want to rely on the tribal/clanic definition of the beginning of humanity of "eye for an eye", that's up to you)

    Was it a crime ?. By nowadays standards (in our countries) it was.
    Was it explainable and justifiable at that moment ? : of course it was and you won't see me shed a single tear for those SS butchers that had a deserved fate
    But please have you use of word straight and correct.....

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smok View Post
    It wasn't a crime. It was justice.
    For most of those killed probably yes but there's a chance they got one or two clerks, cooks, medics or whatever and some deserters/stragglers who just happened to be around.

  14. #74
    Senior Member LineDoggie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCR View Post
    For most of those killed probably yes but there's a chance they got one or two clerks, cooks, medics or whatever and some deserters/stragglers who just happened to be around.
    And some of the wounded in the Hospital who had no connection to the KL also were killed out of hand. There's an interesting interview with a wounded one armed Waffen-SS NCO who was in the hospital that day. He had just been assigned to the hospital after being wounded fighting in the east.

    http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Dachau...rsKilled2.html

    I also once found a page on a US 42ID Patrol that came across a wandering Waffen-SS patrol the next day and shot them all not too far away from Dachau.(I believe it was in After the Battle Magazine Issue. 27). It was the sigrunes that became their deathwarrant after the Americans took Dachau.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LineDoggie View Post
    And some of the wounded in the Hospital who had no connection to the KL also were killed out of hand. There's an interesting interview with a wounded one armed Waffen-SS NCO who was in the hospital that day. He had just been assigned to the hospital after being wounded fighting in the east.

    http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Dachau...rsKilled2.html

    I also once found a page on a US 42ID Patrol that came across a wandering Waffen-SS patrol the next day and shot them all not too far away from Dachau.(I believe it was in After the Battle Magazine Issue. 27). It was the sigrunes that became their deathwarrant after the Americans took Dachau.
    I would closely read that particular website and it's supplemental pages. While being very informative about holocaust camps and sites like the holocaust museum and anne frank's house - it has a subtle apologist and denial subtext. He especially likes to caption all photos of dachau prisoners as either communists/criminals and makes a special point of saying the platoon cmdr of the 45th Div who's men machine gunned the lined up SS POWs was an American Indian like somehow his non white background had to do with his savage hatred of the Germans and that because the 45th was from Arizona and had many Native Americans in its ranks was why it committed numerous war crimes. The shooting was investigated and there are apparently different witness accounts as to why the gunner opened fire and how many were actually killed. That website likes to emphasize they were mainly wounded SS troops from a hospital not associated with Dachau etc. He also praises German technology and ingenuity while describing the holocaust...draw your own conclusions I guess. Just saying I noticed it...

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