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Thread: Philippine Military Finalizing Plan To Acquire 1 Squadron Of F-16 Fighter Jets

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    Quote Originally Posted by junglejim View Post
    I can be pretty sure that the Yak-130 is out of the question. When's the last time the Philippines bought Russian equipment? The incoming RPG's that we just bought for the Army is not even coming from the Eastern Block nations.
    what the phillippines' army actually bought them american-made RPGs(the one with collapsible stock and M4 grip)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ayanami_tard View Post
    what the phillippines' army actually bought them american-made RPGs(the one with collapsible stock and M4 grip)?
    What I've heard is its not from the usual eastern block nations, leaning to that but will have to see when they get delivered.

  3. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by junglejim View Post
    I can be pretty sure that the Yak-130 is out of the question. When's the last time the Philippines bought Russian equipment? The incoming RPG's that we just bought for the Army is not even coming from the Eastern Block nations.
    Your reasoning is : "When's the last time the Philippines bought Russian equipment?"

    Explain this then:
    [*******#000000][FONT=Georgia]Russian defense marketing agency Rosoboronexport believes Southeast Asia is a prime market for the Yakovlev Yak-130 two-seat advanced jet trainer/light attack aircraft. Malaysia and the Philippines, in particular, have shown interest in the trainer, according to Rosboronexport deputy general director Viktor Komardin.
    [/FONT][/COLOR]http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-ne...southeast-asia
    [*******#000000][FONT=Georgia]
    It's just a subsonic trainer/light attack for crying out loud. Plus money talks. Before what happened in Libya, Libya signed a contract to buy 6 Yak-130s for $90 million. That's pretty affordable.

    But let's use your reasoning. When was the last time Russian warships visited Manila? Not in 96 years. But they just did last month. When was the last time Russia sent 2 Russian cargo planes containing 60 tonnes of relief goods each for victims of the earthquake a few weeks ago. Unheard of. But it just happened.

    Not sure if buying Yak-130s will push through but I'm pretty sure they are talking with each other or you can just call Rosoboronexport a liar and call it a day.
    [/FONT][/COLOR]

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    Quote Originally Posted by icefrog View Post
    Your reasoning is : "When's the last time the Philippines bought Russian equipment?"

    Explain this then:
    [*******#000000][FONT=Georgia]Russian defense marketing agency Rosoboronexport believes Southeast Asia is a prime market for the Yakovlev Yak-130 two-seat advanced jet trainer/light attack aircraft. Malaysia and the Philippines, in particular, have shown interest in the trainer, according to Rosboronexport deputy general director Viktor Komardin.
    [/FONT][/COLOR]http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-ne...southeast-asia
    [*******#000000][FONT=Georgia]
    It's just a subsonic trainer/light attack for crying out loud. Plus money talks. Before what happened in Libya, Libya signed a contract to buy 6 Yak-130s for $90 million. That's pretty affordable.

    But let's use your reasoning. When was the last time Russian warships visited Manila? Not in 96 years. But they just did last month. When was the last time Russia sent 2 Russian cargo planes containing 60 tonnes of relief goods for victims of the earthquake a few weeks ago. Unheard of. But it just happened.

    Not sure if buying Yak-130s will push through but I'm pretty sure they are talking with each other or you can just call Rosoboronexport a liar and call it a day.
    [/FONT][/COLOR]

    Shown interest, how? I used that as a reasoning, since a request for info will be touted as such by suppliers. Again when was the last time the Philippines bought Russian weapons? So that news article has no weight.

  5. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by junglejim View Post
    Shown interest, how? I used that as a reasoning, since a request for info will be touted as such by suppliers. Again when was the last time the Philippines bought Russian weapons? So that news article has no weight.
    It has no weight? Showing interest is just showing interest. They are't confirming anything. Geez. So, your basically saying Rosoboronexport is lying. Got it.

    No comment on Russian warships visiting Philippines for the first time in 96 years? And sending 120 tonnes total of relief goods for the first time either? There's always a first time for everything and never say never.

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    Quote Originally Posted by icefrog View Post
    It has no weight? Showing interest is just showing interest. They are't confirming anything. Geez. So, your basically saying Rosoboronexport is lying. Got it.

    No comment on Russian warships visiting Philippines for the first time in 96 years? And sending 120 tonnes total of relief goods for the first time either? There's always a first time for everything and never say never.
    Rosboron is just exagerating, and we do get Russian ships visiting us on a yearly basis, it was just big news since it was the same time as an American warship. As for Rosborn it is good publicity, as a project manager it is your task to get all the information on avaialble systems so a query was made and bam "Philippines looking at the Yak." all I am saying is dont hold your breath.

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    Quote Originally Posted by icefrog View Post
    Your reasoning is : "When's the last time the Philippines bought Russian equipment?"

    Explain this then:
    [*******#000000][FONT=Georgia]Russian defense marketing agency Rosoboronexport believes Southeast Asia is a prime market for the Yakovlev Yak-130 two-seat advanced jet trainer/light attack aircraft. Malaysia and the Philippines, in particular, have shown interest in the trainer, according to Rosboronexport deputy general director Viktor Komardin.
    [/FONT][/COLOR]http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-ne...southeast-asia
    [*******#000000][FONT=Georgia]
    It's just a subsonic trainer/light attack for crying out loud. Plus money talks. Before what happened in Libya, Libya signed a contract to buy 6 Yak-130s for $90 million. That's pretty affordable.

    [/FONT][/COLOR]
    cheap,blatant advertising

    well it's cheaper and has 2 engines....i can see how it could attract malaysia(being Su-30MKM,MiG-29N user and possible more) but we're talking about philipppines here

    just saying.so move along

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    That's what I was saying, it was nothing but cheap advertising, let me see we have an Italian line up for trainers as for today, and we have a very senior pilot in Italy flying around in an AMX over Europe evaluating it, we already have had major deals with Italy before, but no... we will buy a similar aircraft but from Russia.

    Different logistics train, systems, doctrines and personalities.

    Western Europeans just have a lot more to offer than Russia right now, avilability of surplus aircraft, trade deals, and overseas employment. Take those into account.

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    Quote Originally Posted by junglejim View Post
    I can be pretty sure that the Yak-130 is out of the question. When's the last time the Philippines bought Russian equipment?
    The Yak-130 is reportedly on the list of aircraft being evaluated.

    Quote Originally Posted by junglejim View Post
    And no even of the F-5's were given as free the Air Force will reject it, that is why they retired it in the first place.
    As recently as October of last year, the PAF was seriously looking at used F-5s as a stop gap measure and even had a couple of specific sources in mind. Not everyone was happy with the effort since they felt that it would endanger the SAA/LIFT project that was already in DSOM.

    PNoy's F-16 challenge put at end to this side-effort AFAIK.
    Last edited by adroth; 03-11-2012 at 04:36 PM.

  10. #55

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    Well, they are re-thinking about the F-16s now:
    http://www.businessmirror.com.ph/hom...16-acquisition

    Maintenance is the culprit as previously discussed on this thread.

    Just go back to the armed trainer TA-50, maybe get some no-frills, economical turboprops like the KT-1C for OV-10 replacements and then get some F5s (donation) from Korea as interim MRFs. After deliveries for the TA-50s they can get FA-50s next. After FA-50s, KFX around the 2020-2022 time-line. That's the most obvious plan.

    Also consider Russian Yak-130s combat trainers for diversity and insurance. You have growth and future in the Yak-130s as oppose to the AMX, IMHO w/c are being considered to be phased out in a few years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by icefrog View Post
    Well, they are re-thinking about the F-16s now:
    http://www.businessmirror.com.ph/hom...16-acquisition

    Maintenance is the culprit as previously discussed on this thread.

    Just go back to the armed trainer TA-50, maybe get some no-frills, economical turboprops like the KT-1C for OV-10 replacements and then get some F5s (donation) from Korea as interim MRFs. After deliveries for the TA-50s they can get FA-50s next. After FA-50s, KFX around the 2020-2022 time-line. That's the most obvious plan.

    Also consider Russian Yak-130s combat trainers for diversity and insurance. You have growth and future in the Yak-130s as oppose to the AMX, IMHO w/c are being considered to be phased out in a few years.
    As mentioned with out an increase in the current budget it would be hard pressed to maintain the F-16. The airforce is not really rethinking the F-16 more on just going back to the original plan of not getting the MRF on the current phase. As for the LIFT, althought it has not been announced yet (expect around July), there is already an aircraft that is coming out as the most likley candidate for this. Same for the Maritime Patrol Aircraft...so just wait a lil bit longer.

    @adroth, true that it was being considered but as I mentioned it would be turned down. There was serious group that opposed the F-5 at the onset due to the fear of it killing the modernization, and thankfully they have succeeded, well until the next smart politician kills it and proposes the F-5 again.

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    They could consider the Gripen if they want low-cost fighter systems....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loke2 View Post
    They could consider the Gripen if they want low-cost fighter systems....
    Yeah, those Gripens are more 'fit' for the Philippines. The lease-to-own option just like what Hungary opted for also 'fits' them. I wonder why SAAB is not pitching themselves.

    I'm speculating that France may have pitched UAE's 2nd-hand Mirage 2000-9 when Phil. Officials visited them a few weeks ago. At 20M Euros, that's tempting.

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    Unofficial source say that Philippines is in the final stage of negotiations with Italy for 6 AMX-ATA (AMX Advanced Trainer Attack), a two-seater trainer with multi-mode radar air-to-air and air-to-surface capability combat roles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by junglejim View Post
    As mentioned with out an increase in the current budget it would be hard pressed to maintain the F-16. The airforce is not really rethinking the F-16 more on just going back to the original plan of not getting the MRF on the current phase. As for the LIFT, althought it has not been announced yet (expect around July), there is already an aircraft that is coming out as the most likley candidate for this. Same for the Maritime Patrol Aircraft...so just wait a lil bit longer.
    "Re-thinking" was indeed an unfortunate choice of words.

    The current state of affairs is simply an off-shoot of the fact that the F-16 effort was injected into the plan by an outside entity. The PAF's procurement plans are put together with an eye on the PAF's budget and capability. An effort like the F-16 will understandably require a return to the drawing board for a "re-think" . . . especially since other aspects of the plan have already moved ahead.

    Money had already been flagged for whatever is currently in the pipeline and defined by what little funding that the PAF had originally been slated to receive. So when somebody plops another piece of equipment into that queue, it would only be natural for planners to ask about where the money is coming from. Petro-pesos may have already been identified as a source of that funding, the devil remains in the details in how that money gets from where it is, to where it needs to be.

    While media accounts implied otherwise, it was never really about getting MRFs "in the current phase". Horizon 2 projects (e.g, SAA/LIFT, MPA, etc.) were all slated to arrive before we saw an MRF's shadow. But the intent was to accelerate the start of the next phase. Even with an early start . . . fruits of the next phase wouldn't be realized till after end of H2. It would simply allow H3 goals to be met earlier.
    Last edited by adroth; 03-12-2012 at 12:28 PM.

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