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Thread: Iran offers "new initiatives" for talks

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pankrat View Post
    This is the stupidest post I have read here so far.

    It was Israel that bombed Iraq, not Iran.

    Who is the hypocrite now?
    His post was not stupid/hypocrite, he just knows history better than you. Iran stroke the reactor first.

    On 30 September 1980 a a pair of Iranian Phantom jets, part of a larger group of aircraft attacking a conventional electric power plant near Baghdad, also bombed the Osiraq reactor. Minor damage to the reactor was reported. No further Iranian air attacks against Iraqi nuclear facilities were identified during the rest of the seven-year war.

    (…)

    At 15:55 on 07 June 1981, the first F-15 and F-16's roared off the runway from Etzion Air Force Base in the south. Israeli air force planes flew over Jordanian, Saudi, and Iraqi airspace After a tense but uneventful low-level navigation route, the fighters reached their target. They popped up at 17:35 and quickly identified the dome gleaming in the late afternoon sunlight. Iraqi defenses were caught by surprise and opened fire too late. In one minute and twenty seconds, the reactor lay in ruins.
    http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/iraq/facility/osiraq.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azorean View Post
    If all people thought the same as some users here, then we would be at war with Iran already! Then NK, then... It wouldnt stop!
    Geez good thing the world as evolved since it got the taste of 2 World Wars...
    Stop writing, you don't add anything airsofter. You family is not at risk in the middle of the Atlantic. Geez.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pankrat View Post
    This is the stupidest post I have read here so far.

    It was Israel that bombed Iraq, not Iran.

    Who is the hypocrite now?
    Look newbie, before posting, go and read some, then come and call stupid whoever you want, but not before learning. ok?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Climber View Post



    Look newbie, before posting, go and read some, then come and call stupid whoever you want, but not before learning. ok?
    Even then don't call people stupid...

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    Its a forum, everybody as right to express their opinion.

    This Island as an important military base to US operations overseas, in the Cold War we had our coordinates entered in a silo with some USSR "love machine" destined for us and as for World Wars goes, WWI we participate and lost good number of people there, got relatives who participated on it, WWII we had on my island bombers from RAF that hunted down German subs, again i had relatives directly envolved in those operations in the logistic part of it, so not so "neutral" after all.

    What i gatter on this subject from US military personnel is no desire to tackle with Iran right now, but as things are going i have no issued if Israel goes and bombs their Nuclear instalations, but sincerely i think that that is exactly what Iran wants to happen, since i dont think they are able on their own to build and operate a significant Nuclear capable arsenal.

    As an European and civilian i see this all matter as an anoyance since oil prices are raising.

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    Quote Originally Posted by toad View Post
    Iran was the first country to bomb another countries nuclear facilities. The first instance of a preventive attack on a nuclear reactor which was aimed to forestall the development of a nuclear weapon........ They bombed Iraqs facilities, first chance they got.

    But they are upset that someone would like to bomb the crap out of their facility....to forestall the development of a nuclear weapon.

    Too funny .....


    Hypocrites.

    Tighten the screws on them. And don't negotiate.

    I might as well repost it. People need to read better, or understand what they read.

    I said facilities. Iran WAS the first to attack a neighbors facilities. And for a specific reason.....to forestall. Deal with it....they are hypocrites

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    Nothings gonna change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KoTeMoRe View Post
    Iran sent planes in Tuwaitha...not Osirak per se (the IRIAF F-4's were nowhere near the mission Israel laid out and Iran was aiming at the nuclear center, not the reactor as they knoew France had not delivered the enriched uranium fully as the cores were being remanufactured following the Israeli sabotage). When you gotta slander some country at least do it right. Iranians gave plans and intel to the Israelis wich in return helped them get US weaponery (TOWs) in exchange for US hostages...dirty little secrets of the era I guess.

    BTW Israel sabotaged the Reactor cores of the Osirak plant in 1978 (missed)/79 (succeded)...in France (so I guess Israel is still numero uno in the Business of sabotaging other countries nuclear facilities...?
    I don't understand your post, What's the point of being arrogant? Most of us do not know technical details of things, Myself I don't fully understand differences between Nuclear centre, reactor, core, I mean, who cares? The History fact is general. and yes Iran and Israel had a common enemy, and Realpolitik prevailed, there is no need for a (your) moral rule here. Because there is no morality in this. Want to discuss Iranian morality again with me? I can talk for first hand experience how moral Iran is, can you say the same?

    And I thank we are de numero uno hitting nuclear facilities, that's what keeping my family alive.



    Quote Originally Posted by KoTeMoRe View Post
    You know you and I have been on that road before. You need to check your facts before you post, just in case. The last two times you were allowed to save face by a moderator. Asking for politeness and respect (while you had been making things up for the get go). The little pro-israeli show is Ok with me, you're allowed to have a bias. I don't allow myself space for it. Toad said something that was factually incorrect. If not for Norway's Heav Water plant during WW2, at least for the attack on the French CERN site.

    So please try to be a little more correct in the future.

    BTW the "Dirty Little secrets" comes from here...



    Now why do I always portray Israel as the bad guy? Non-sense. I wouldn't dare to poke Israel with a 10 000 mile pole, unless people state hilarious biased "facts" that denote a clear chauvinist agenda.
    Sadly most hardcore Israeli posters here don't hesitate to go beyond decency (I mean weren't you people slashing Iran on the latest terror attempts? While completely defending Israel on the Iranian assasinations cases?) no problem, C'est la vie.

    French interest? Bollocks...that would have meant remanufacturing the cores again (meaning loss of money) in the verge of a politically charged year...

    I mean further more Israelis all that year were attempting at Iraqi hired scientists (hint Paris 1980, **********).

    Listen I love myself to play the devil's advocate, but telling people you're dealing with the Devil (Ay. Khomeini) sounds like a "dirty little secret". Iran Contra? remember that?
    Same as above. You are being arrogant, I dont see the point. You can correct any detail if you want.

    And Assassinations its not the same as terror bombings, right? I mean a nuclear scientist of a country that publicly declares to want to wipe my kids off the face of the map is not the same that putting a bomb on the car of a Israeli women who happen to be the wife of a diplomat. I mean, you are the one who is picky about details.

    And the Iran/contras/ Israel operation was already posted by me in another thread, its well known, nobody is hiding anything here. The world is a brutal place, and you know I know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azorean View Post
    Its a forum, everybody as right to express their opinion.

    This Island as an important military base to US operations overseas, in the Cold War we had our coordinates entered in a silo with some USSR "love machine" destined for us and as for World Wars goes, WWI we participate and lost good number of people there, got relatives who participated on it, WWII we had on my island bombers from RAF that hunted down German subs, again i had relatives directly envolved in those operations in the logistic part of it, so not so "neutral" after all.

    What i gatter on this subject from US military personnel is no desire to tackle with Iran right now, but as things are going i have no issued if Israel goes and bombs their Nuclear instalations, but sincerely i think that that is exactly what Iran wants to happen, since i dont think they are able on their own to build and operate a significant Nuclear capable arsenal.

    As an European and civilian i see this all matter as an anoyance since oil prices are raising.
    As long your kids do not have to use a gas mask, run to a shelter, or their school bus get missiled you will not be annoyed.............and you mind your oil prices. Thats the mentality of a person who lives in a island in the middle of the ocean. you just care for the oil price, I care for my country and my people. Little difference there, right?

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    Off-course!
    I have the luxury to see things at a distance and unbias position, but i do simpatize with your position and understand it, seen my share of things when younger, could say ive been around the block and it wasnt sight seing that i was doing... I know things can go from bad to butt ugly very fast.

    Ill just finish saying that Israel must make damn sure that it shows Iran is really pursuing Nuclear weapons, cause in this days friends are hard to come by and as you know many countries around you are boiling and we cant see in wich direction their going to turn now, unillateral military action without a clear justification can make more damage to Israel in the long run than Iran having a working nuclear plant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by toad View Post
    I might as well repost it. People need to read better, or understand what they read.

    I said facilities. Iran WAS the first to attack a neighbors facilities. And for a specific reason.....to forestall. Deal with it....they are hypocrites
    Nope...The first such thing would be Norway...with Norwegian resistance (with British help) attacking the German Heavy Water Plant. Try Again...

    Israel sabotaged the CERN cores intended for the Osiris/Isis reactor in France.

    Please try again.

    Courtesy of the French Foreign Affairs:

    http://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/fr/IMG/pdf/Osirak.pdf

    BTW the attack at Iraq's facilities was prepared with Israeli approval and intelligence. The French even believed at the time that the four F-4's were indeed Israeli.

    It seems that for a military forum, people have little to no knowledge of the state of affairs then.

    But hey, Iran's the Devil...

    Arrogance? Where? At your corner? Surely. Because while the world is a brutal place, some have the luxury of that brutality...given that Israel is contemplating to breach AIEA's GC-53 regarding nuclear installations.

    I'm nowhere near the level of animosity you seem to display towards me, but you have to be square.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KoTeMoRe View Post
    Nope...The first such thing would be Norway...with Norwegian resistance (with British help) attacking the German Heavy Water Plant. Try Again...

    Israel sabotaged the CERN cores intended for the Osiris/Isis reactor in France.

    Please try again.

    Courtesy of the French Foreign Affairs:

    http://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/fr/IMG/pdf/Osirak.pdf

    BTW the attack at Iraq's facilities was prepared with Israeli approval and intelligence. The French even believed at the time that the four F-4's were indeed Israeli.

    It seems that for a military forum, people have little to no knowledge of the state of affairs then.

    But hey, Iran's the Devil...

    Arrogance? Where? At your corner? Surely. Because while the world is a brutal place, some have the luxury of that brutality...given that Israel is contemplating to breach AIEA's GC-53 regarding nuclear installations.

    I'm nowhere near the level of animosity you seem to display towards me, but you have to be square.
    Animosity? I thought you knew me better than that. Even if some of us make mistakes, or do not have your level of knowledge, you can address it better than you do.

    And yes Iran is the devil, the other day, was the birthday of Cris Degtiar, he would be 39, but no, He was slain at 21 because Iran. That is the real thing, it is not theoretical, its real. The Holy Leaders are murderers of common real people who had nothing to do with anything other than being Jews.
    You seems to forget that we didn't attack Iran, never.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Camera View Post
    No date announced?
    Iran is now waiting for Ashtons response after delivering the letter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Climber View Post
    Animosity? I thought you knew me better than that. Even if some of us make mistakes, or do not have your level of knowledge, you can address it better than you do.

    And yes Iran is the devil, the other day, was the birthday of Cris Degtiar, he would be 39, but no, He was slain at 21 because Iran. That is the real thing, it is not theoretical, its real. The Holy Leaders are murderers of common real people who had nothing to do with anything other than being Jews.
    You seems to forget that we didn't attack Iran, never.
    Two words...Peripheral Strategy.

    Israel has never had to attack Iran. Reflect on Queen Esther from the Old Testament. Israel's interests regarding Iran have always been served through a fascia of the US diplomacy and interventionism. Mosadegh, The Olive revolution, the White Revolution, the Iran-Iraq war...

    If anything, Israel has had the same issues as Iran with the Arabs. It has always had the same answers (as Iran) for the Arabs (finding a Tutor). The issue has always been the global reach of the Shia population.

    The problem is that Israel is simply fearing its role in the Middle East is on a cross-road. If Iran cuts the Israeli middle man for its own profit (IE having the US go back to the Persian option) Israel is pretty much done as a local hegemon.

    And god forbid Iran has some serious assets. I see the Israeli-Iran scuffle as business deal gone wrong. Israel knows this, Iran knows it. And unlike Iran, Israel has no time to spare. I pretty much understand and appreciate the Israeli pride, ain't easy being put back in self-defence mode with less tools to walk the walk Israel wants to.

    The real thing is that both sides are willing to bet real people for regional hegemony. I don't know if you get the idea here. It is that Iran (bar open war) has won the long run. They can pretty much have a go at any one in the region with an Arab badge. They have enough land and manpower to keep Israel at bay. IE the only thing they fear and have feared has been the sugar daddies.

    So saying Israel has never attacked Iran, is way more complicated. Let's say that the dealings during the Iran-Contra gate show an Israeli side eager to put Iranians on a harms way to hurt Saddam and themselves. During Operation Ajax Israelis could have saved Mosadegh by having him informed. They instead worked for the Sugar daddy Uncle Sam buying out half of Tehran.

    At the time Iran was the second Muslim country to have recognized Israel...

    Now I'm not going to toss around any accusations because as I stated, this is not about right or wrong. This is about regional hegemony based on strategic assets. Iran has plenty, Israel has close to none. Under that light I understand clearly the hurry and propaganda of the Israeli camp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KoTeMoRe View Post
    Two words...Peripheral Strategy.

    Israel has never had to attack Iran. Reflect on Queen Esther from the Old Testament. Israel's interests regarding Iran have always been served through a fascia of the US diplomacy and interventionism. Mosadegh, The Olive revolution, the White Revolution, the Iran-Iraq war...

    If anything, Israel has had the same issues as Iran with the Arabs. It has always had the same answers (as Iran) for the Arabs (finding a Tutor). The issue has always been the global reach of the Shia population.

    The problem is that Israel is simply fearing its role in the Middle East is on a cross-road. If Iran cuts the Israeli middle man for its own profit (IE having the US go back to the Persian option) Israel is pretty much done as a local hegemon.

    And god forbid Iran has some serious assets. I see the Israeli-Iran scuffle as business deal gone wrong. Israel knows this, Iran knows it. And unlike Iran, Israel has no time to spare. I pretty much understand and appreciate the Israeli pride, ain't easy being put back in self-defence mode with less tools to walk the walk Israel wants to.

    The real thing is that both sides are willing to bet real people for regional hegemony. I don't know if you get the idea here. It is that Iran (bar open war) has won the long run. They can pretty much have a go at any one in the region with an Arab badge. They have enough land and manpower to keep Israel at bay. IE the only thing they fear and have feared has been the sugar daddies.

    So saying Israel has never attacked Iran, is way more complicated. Let's say that the dealings during the Iran-Contra gate show an Israeli side eager to put Iranians on a harms way to hurt Saddam and themselves. During Operation Ajax Israelis could have saved Mosadegh by having him informed. They instead worked for the Sugar daddy Uncle Sam buying out half of Tehran.

    At the time Iran was the second Muslim country to have recognized Israel...

    Now I'm not going to toss around any accusations because as I stated, this is not about right or wrong. This is about regional hegemony based on strategic assets. Iran has plenty, Israel has close to none. Under that light I understand clearly the hurry and propaganda of the Israeli camp.

    Israel as a local hegemon? Interesting. Okay, please substantiate that claim.

    Also, your claims about Ajax require examination and documentation. Document how Israel knew anything at all about Ajax? While your at it, also document your claim about Israel being a US client state in 1953.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KoTeMoRe View Post
    Nope...The first such thing would be Norway...with Norwegian resistance (with British help) attacking the German Heavy Water Plant. Try Again...

    Israel sabotaged the CERN cores intended for the Osiris/Isis reactor in France.

    Please try again.

    (…)
    Todd has clearly spoke about the first country to bomb a nuclear reactor and he was right.
    [*******#222222][FONT=Times]
    Quote Originally Posted by toad View Post
    Iran was the first country to bomb another countries nuclear facilities. The first instance of a preventive attack on a nuclear reactor which was aimed to forestall the development of a nuclear weapon........ They bombed Iraqs facilities, first chance they got.

    (…)
    [SIZE=3]The cores (a component that had to be shipped to Osirak) and the sabotaged boats that shipped the heavy water produced in Norway were not reactors.

    [/SIZE]
    [/FONT][/COLOR]

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