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Thread: Poachers slaughter hundreds of elephants in Cameroon

  1. #16
    Platinum Member Rattfink's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dracu 'scoţian independen View Post
    very true and its probably rich people from the developed world that is buying these items.
    Unsubstantiated buuuuuut I recall seeing on television that small sculptures intricately carved from ivory and rhino horn are important status symbols in China's new upper and middle class. They range from the size of baseballs and hockey pucks and go all the way up to the entire tusk. They are meant for conspicuous display in public rooms in the house.

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    From mates in the Anti-poaching side of things in Africa: The market is predominantely China, but other high demand regions are South Asia and the Middle East. there are a few "Western" customers but the bulk of ivory/horn is going East. Recently Zimbabwe found a couple of Chinese facilitators and arrested them. Most are smarter than that and leave it to the impoverished Africans to do the dirty work. The facilitators are often regional African businessmen, which is handy when you need to arrange international shipping. Often the customer wont leave their home. The ones who need to be shot are usually a few links further up the chain than the poor bastard trying to keep food on the table. Most poaching is for survival/subsistance. The methods are generally snares and the animals are generally "deer" type animals. Animals are used for food and some for commercial purposes.
    The next tier of poaching is commercial small scale: mass poisoning of Vultures for medicine, snaring of antelope for skins, as well as other animals. Purely commercial. Often resulting in utter overkill and "wastage" ie: poisoning a carcass and vultures dying from the meat - vultures weigh 10-15kg, poachers on foot, as most are, cannot carry more than a few vultures, although they may have killed 100 - quite common.
    Large scale "big Game" poaching is purely commercial and generally for the intercontinental market. generally they work in a large networks from the poacher on the ground to facilitators and middle men to the customer. Thats the ones you hear about mostly. There were poachers running out of Mozambique known for Helicopter based operations, flying to Kruger National Park, killing from the air, taking a chainsaw to the tusks and flying back out before RSA Airforce could scramble to intercept. Some of their jobs were reported as taking 15 minutes to get over the border, get the job done and back across the border.
    I mention that because I want people to realise poaching is not an ad-hoc industry of rag ****d africans killing indiscriminate animals and selling the tusks down the market. Its well planned, organised and the killing of the large animals is often targetted in occordance with the current demand. The blokes you see getting nicked and shot are just the lowest end of the scale.

  3. #18
    You buy me drinkie [RNZE]Sapper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rattfink View Post
    Unsubstantiated buuuuuut I recall seeing on television that small sculptures intricately carved from ivory and rhino horn are important status symbols in China's new upper and middle class. They range from the size of baseballs and hockey pucks and go all the way up to the entire tusk. They are meant for conspicuous display in public rooms in the house.
    LOL. I came into this thread thinking. "I bet the Chinese did this." Can't believe it took the second page for them to get mentioned. Oh the Chinese. What would we do with out them? Is there anything you can't blame the Chinese for?

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    Platinum Member Rattfink's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [RNZE]Sapper View Post
    LOL. I came into this thread thinking. "I bet the Chinese did this." Can't believe it took the second page for them to get mentioned. Oh the Chinese. What would we do with out them? Is there anything you can't blame the Chinese for?
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...012406078.html

    "In China, a deeply rooted cultural emphasis on ivory as a status symbol - coupled with the recent exponential growth of the consuming class - has created a demand for ivory that is the highest in the world."
    http://www.theecologist.org/News/new...se_cities.html

    yup I was way off.

  5. #20
    You buy me drinkie [RNZE]Sapper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rattfink View Post
    yup I was way off.
    Your sarcasm detector is way off mate. No sarcasm intended. I'm agreeing with you. You CAN blame the Chinese for everything. That's the beauty of an acceptable target.

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    Platinum Member Rattfink's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [RNZE]Sapper View Post
    Your sarcasm detector is way off mate. No sarcasm intended. I'm agreeing with you. You CAN blame the Chinese for everything. That's the beauty of an acceptable target.
    My apologies then. It can be hard to tell in print .

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    Junior sized package member Toddy1's Avatar
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    @ Blue Thor are your mates part of the IAPF in Zim?

    Why are the Chinese allowed to wipe out Tigers, Elephants, Rhino etc etc but yet Pandas remain the property of China no matter where they are in the world. For every animal they kill we should ransom a Panda

    In all seriousness though, you are talking about some (not all) people (poachers) who have virtually nothing and they risk their lives to poach animals. Governments need to do more to provide opportunities for them to change their ways. It's not easy but then again for us with our laptops and comforts of home it is easy to say kill them etc. Education is the key.

    Organised crime poaching is different altogether and should be hunted (pardon the pun) to extinction.

    In saying all of the above I am a strong supporter of the WWF and other groups such as the IAPF and in no way condone killing any animal which is on the extinction path.

  8. #23
    Platinum Member Rattfink's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toddy1 View Post
    @ Blue Thor are your mates part of the IAPF in Zim?

    Why are the Chinese allowed to wipe out Tigers, Elephants, Rhino etc etc but yet Pandas remain the property of China no matter where they are in the world. For every animal they kill we should ransom a Panda

    In all seriousness though, you are talking about some (not all) people (poachers) who have virtually nothing and they risk their lives to poach animals. Governments need to do more to provide opportunities for them to change their ways. It's not easy but then again for us with our laptops and comforts of home it is easy to say kill them etc. Education is the key.

    Organised crime poaching is different altogether and should be hunted (pardon the pun) to extinction.

    In saying all of the above I am a strong supporter of the WWF and other groups such as the IAPF and in no way condone killing any animal which is on the extinction path.
    That is true of poachers, drug mules and so many others. As long as there are desperate people in the world who will do anything to feed themselves or their family, any activity that pays will continue.

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    Senior Member Migs's Avatar
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    [reaction post]

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    Daddy's little boy RSone's Avatar
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    When you hear of, and see scenes where the elephants were rid of its tusks by means of powertools such as chainsaws, the stereotype of 'poor africans' is on shaky ground. Of course, they're undoubtedly there, but there are poachers who've taken it to a entirely different level. It saddens me western governments don't focus more on these issues in distributing development aid to african countries. It seems that, to them, development aid is just to throw money at something and pretending it solves the issue. A targeted approach to improving the local economy and providing instructors for the training of park rangers and local LEOs would go a long way, methinks.

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    Platinum Member Rattfink's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RSone View Post
    When you hear of, and see scenes where the elephants were rid of its tusks by means of powertools such as chainsaws, the stereotype of 'poor africans' is on shaky ground. Of course, they're undoubtedly there, but there are poachers who've taken it to a entirely different level. It saddens me western governments don't focus more on these issues in distributing development aid to african countries. It seems that, to them, development aid is just to throw money at something and pretending it solves the issue. A targeted approach to improving the local economy and providing instructors for the training of park rangers and local LEOs would go a long way, methinks.
    Park ranger officer exchange program?

  12. #27
    Daddy's little boy RSone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rattfink View Post
    Park ranger officer exchange program?
    Could be an option, but considering that park rangers in wildlife preserves the size we're talking about are often a paramilitary affair, military instructors should be considered. LEOs for the local police in villages and cities on the outskirts of the preserves could improve local policing quite a bit, depending on the prior level of quality.
    It may sound too involved, but i'm starting to hate the approach many western countries take. It's inefficient and wasteful of the taxpayer's money. My own country (the Netherlands) being a good example of development aid in its current form as the proverbial sacred cow.

    Slowly and systematically improving standards of living in Africa is a good way of preventing and counteracting a lot of the bull**** that seems to periodically erupt there. The Chinese are rapidly gaining influence in the region, throwing money at the local big heads in exchange for resources, already creating animosity among those negatively affected by these practices. If the west wants to retain a semblance of influence and diplomatic say in the goings on of Africa, we'll need to get involved in a good way. The world can not afford the central and sub-saharan nations evolving in the way they've been headed these last few decades. It's bad in both the ecological and geopolitical sense.

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    Milo Drinker of Death Flagg's Avatar
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    A former SBS officer with extensive experience living/working in africa set up a counter poaching program a few years back in Congo.

    There was a doco on it.

    I hunted in Africa once and would love to go back someday.

    The idea of going on counter poaching patrols armed has a certain appeal.

  14. #29
    Platinum Member Rattfink's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flagg View Post
    A former SBS officer with extensive experience living/working in africa set up a counter poaching program a few years back in Congo.

    There was a doco on it.

    I hunted in Africa once and would love to go back someday.

    The idea of going on counter poaching patrols armed has a certain appeal.
    What is a Doco?

  15. #30
    Junior sized package member Toddy1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flagg View Post
    A former SBS officer with extensive experience living/working in africa set up a counter poaching program a few years back in Congo.

    There was a doco on it.

    I hunted in Africa once and would love to go back someday.

    The idea of going on counter poaching patrols armed has a certain appeal.
    Check out these guys Flagg, run by ex Clearance Diver and special operations within ADF http://www.iapf.org/en/

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