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Thread: Rick Santorum says the Dutch are killing the elderly: half of euthanizations forced

  1. #61
    Senior Member [WDW]Megaraptor's Avatar
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    http://www.euthanasia.com/netherlands.html

    The Dutch courts and the Royal Dutch Medical Association KNMG established guidelines for physicians to follow in selecting patients for either assisted suicide or euthanasia: (1) voluntariness - patients request must be freely made, well-considered and persistent (2) unbearable suffering - patients suffering cannot be relieved by any other means, and (3) consultation - the attending physicians should consult with a colleague. If these guidelines were followed physicians would not be prosecuted. According to Dr. Herbert Hendin, American author of, "Seduced by Death", even these broad guidelines have been largely ignored, to the point were the doctors who help set euthanasia guidelines will privately admit that euthanasia in the Netherlands is basically out of control.
    In 1991, in an effort to come to grips with the actual medical practice of euthanasia and assisted suicide, the Dutch Government established a government commission, headed by Professor Jan Remmelink to study the problem. The Remmelink Report opened the eyes of both the people of the Netherlands and the world to the extent of the practice of euthanasia in Holland. Remmelink found that 49,000 of the 130,000 deaths in the Netherlands each year were not natural but involved a "medical decision at the end of life" or MDEL. 95% of these MDEL cases involve, in equal numbers, either withholding treatment/discontinuing life support or the alleviation of pain and symptoms through medication that might hasten death. This latter (alleviating pain and symptoms) category accounted for approx. 20,000 deaths that had been hastened by a physicians decision. Actual euthanasia, using the official Dutch definition, occurred in 2,300 cases or 2% of all Dutch deaths. Dutch physicians helped 400 patients who requested suicide, for either mental illness or discomfort, to kill themselves in 1990. The alarming statistics of the Remmelink Report indicate that in thousands of cases decisions that might or were intended to end a fully competent patient's life were made without consulting the patient.
    In 1996 a second report on euthanasia in Holland (for 1995) was published. In the interim the number of cases where a doctor had made a decision with the intention to hasten death without the patients express request had risen from 15% to almost 20% of the total annual mortality rate of the Netherlands. At the same time, the number of cases of euthanasia, using the narrow Dutch definition, rose from 2,300 to over 3000, a 30% increase in just 5 years.
    In 30 years Holland has moved from assisted suicide to euthanasia, from euthanasia of people who are terminally ill to euthanasia of those who are chronically ill, from euthanasia for physical illness to euthanasia for mental illness, from euthanasia for mental illness to euthanasia for psychological distress or mental suffering, and from voluntary euthanasia to involuntary euthanasia or as the Dutch prefer to call it "termination of the patient without explicit request".
    Oh yeah and this article is by a citizen of the Netherlands.

    Agree with him or not, Santorum isn't pulling this stuff out of his @$$.

  2. #62
    Daddy's little boy RSone's Avatar
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    Wether or not the above is true, you don't wear ****ing bracelets that say 'please don't euthanize me'..At any rate, US presidential candidates should focus on US problems.
    Also: Judging by the organisation the author of that piece works for, she might not be the most unbiased source. The lack of proper sourcing in the article is worrisome.

    EDIT:
    [*******black]We are committed to the fundamental belief that the intentional
    killing of another person is wrong. We have deep sympathy for
    those people who are suffering.[/COLOR]


    http://www.euthanasia.com/index.html

    By their own admission, I think we should take everything coming from this site with a rather large pinch of salt.

  3. #63
    Senior Member Seek's Avatar
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    Of course, there will be people against euthanasia, even in the Netherlands...

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    Senior Member tercio67's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by '[WDW
    Oh yeah and this article is by a citizen of the Netherlands.

    Agree with him or not, Santorum isn't pulling this stuff out of his @$$.
    Actually, Hermina Dykxhoorn, the author of this piece is a Canadian. She opposes euthanasia on christian grounds. All commentators and 'experts' that are qouted by her aren't Dutch either. Furthermore she uses exerpts from reports without their wider context.

    But yeah, you are of course right. If a little devoid of unbiased facts.

    As for "Santorum isn't pulling this stuff out of his @$$", I don't know the man well enough to know what he puts in there but I will take your word for it that he does.

  5. #65
    Senior Member Kaplanr's Avatar
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    You're assuming the media knows where Dutchland is. Of course we all know it's near the Hollandaise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ought Six View Post
    It is very strange. The media *loves* attacking the Repub frontrunner, whoever it is. That YouTube video was uploaded on 6 Feb., so it has been out for two weeks; yet with a Google News search, I cannot find a single story on it in the American media. That is just the kind of comment they would latch onto and make a big issue.

  6. #66
    Amiable Scoundrel Corrupt's Avatar
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    This guy does not like European healthcare does he.

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    Senior Member [WDW]Megaraptor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RSone View Post
    By their own admission, I think we should take everything coming from this site with a rather large pinch of salt.
    That may be, but the author does cite a variety of sources...

    Another source, the book "Seduced by Death" by Herbert Hendin:

    http://www.leaderu.com/ftissues/ft97...s/chevlen.html

    Yet, as Hendin reports, a Dutch government commission found that in about half of the 49,000 cases in which there was a medical decision at the end of life, the doctor chose a "treatment" whose primary or secondary purpose was to shorten the life of the patient—despite the fact that the patient had not been consulted on the matter. The Dutch delicately refer to this as "termination of the patient without explicit request." Underlying this euphemism is the unchallenged assumption that the doctor knows best. Indeed, as Hendin demonstrates, the regulations placed on PAS and euthanasia in Holland are not designed to protect patients, but rather to exculpate the doctors who help or make them die.

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    Member Kiiski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moose View Post
    That should not matter if he is analyzing the crowd and thinking ”this crowd is ignorant enough so I can lie to them all I want as long as it doesn’t go out in the media” this is idiotic and should directly result in a loss of confidence from the voters. How can you accepts such a double standard.
    I agree and most certainly do not favour such behaviour.

    But I also think that many people in high positions have acted in this fashion.

  9. #69
    Senior Member tercio67's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [WDW]Megaraptor View Post
    Another source, the book "Seduced by Death" by Herbert Hendin:
    Would that be the same Herbert Hendin that started 'Suicide Prevention International'?

  10. #70
    Daddy's little boy RSone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [WDW]Megaraptor View Post
    That may be, but the author does cite a variety of sources...

    Another source, the book "Seduced by Death" by Herbert Hendin:

    http://www.leaderu.com/ftissues/ft97...s/chevlen.html
    Again, the lack of a bibliography/ 'works cited' section makes it much harder to check that what she's saying is fact and has actually been published in the sources she mentions, which is compounded by the fact that most of the sources she 'cites' are from the early to mid nineties. This might be my academic skills class rearing its head, but what I expect is writing that I can assume to be at least accurate at face value. What i'm reading now is engendering the suspicion that if I check my Kluwers Wetbundel, i'm going to find something contrary to what has been stated.

    You say Santorum is giving us accurate statements, and then attempt to prove it by providing us biased material..

  11. #71
    Senior Member [WDW]Megaraptor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tercio67 View Post
    Would that be the same Herbert Hendin that started 'Suicide Prevention International'?
    Are you suggesting that suicide prevention is not a worthy goal?

  12. #72
    Senior Member tercio67's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [WDW]Megaraptor View Post
    Are you suggesting that suicide prevention is not a worthy goal?
    I'm suggesting nothing, I am however questioning his unbiased opinion.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiiski View Post
    I agree and most certainly do not favour such behaviour.

    But I also think that many people in high positions have acted in this fashion.

    I am sure a lot of them do behave in this way thus when they are caught it should be a game changer for them. If your presidential candidate is caught lying or misrepresenting facts to this degree how can he stay in the race. If you want to look at it from a cynical point of view you could say that if a presidential candidate is this careless on what he says that should be a sign of incompetence that should serve as a warning clock. I mean anyone on this forum who for some reason would run for an office would be careful of what they say knowing fully that anything can be filmed and distributed.

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    Senior Member Az_esm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeWolf View Post
    According to Rick Santorum the elderly in my country wear "don't euthanize me" wrist bands. Our liberal government is forcibly euthanizing elderly for the heck of it, in fact according to this worldy figure half the euthanizations in my country or done by force. The mass-killings of my socialist government amount to no less than 10% of the causes of death in the Netherlands. Elderly are so terrified that they are fleeing the Netherlands to avoid being killed by lethal injections (these are actual figures he mentioned).

    And he bases all this on absolutely nothing. Or is this some sort of FOX-news like humor e.i "We are not surprised abortion is legal in the Netherlands, after all the Dutch killed Anne Frank".

    It's all over the Dutch news: http://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2012/02/18/...-in-nederland/ (includes an English video of Dutch culture specialist Rick Santorum spreading his wisdom)

    Is this fundamentalist only retarded on international politics or is he behaving the same way on domestic issues? I thought Newt Gingrich was the extreme one. Perhaps it's best to leave out the Netherlands as a topic of the presidential campaign if we are going to be used for retarded comments.
    Congrats, you've just experienced same sh`t as Russians has every time when some of this guys speaking about our country

  15. #75
    Señior Member Fargin's Avatar
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    Got to hand it to him, he knows his audience, hear the gasps and ohs from the audience.

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