Macedonia Asks to Join NATO Despite Greek Opposition

[themacedonian]

macedonia, finland, kosovo, georgia in NATO 2013 - 2014
is it true ?

None really. Greece will not change. Finland why would they? Kosovo hot potato. Georgia has border problems.

Having said that all of them are US allies.

[mechin]

I know that you're turning this thread in a wrong direction (on purpose)
But hey besides watching this video:

The subject is FYROM's membership request and Greek opposition. Discussing the reasons for this opposition is certainly on topic.
I'm glad you found a propaganda video on YouTube. I guess that counters multiple UN resolutions regarding the identity and number of the kidnapped children and who was responsible.

Why did greek government change all the toponims in aegean macedonia???

Off topic. But looking at numerous historical sources the toponims are identical to what they were 2000+ years ago (including the Biblical reference to Thessaloniki and not Solun).

LJust look at the date when greek government started printing money with virgina sun(1992 after the fall of yugoslavia and Macedonia became seperate republic):

Again off topic. The Vergina Sun was discovered in Greece in 1977 and not in FYROM. It was used in various forms since its discovery throughout Greece. What claim does FYROM have to it?

Can you also explain what the 100th issue of "Macedonian Life" (in Greek of course) printed in 1974 have to do with the discussion? Perhaps to prove that Greeks have been calling themselves Macedonians for a long time?

[themacedonian]

The UN existed in 1934? Do you have any evidence of a UN observer mission to Greek Macedonia?
Do you have any source that states that the Greek Communist Party did not continue to strictly follow Moscow's directives including an independent Macedonia?
Besides the numerous UN resolutions, I also provided a book with a primary account of Greek children being kidnapped to be moved to communist countries or to forcibly fight in the service of the communists. Feel free at any point in the discussion to provide just one impartial source for any position you're trying to take.

Many children that were in Yugoslavia were returned by 1952. Others remained behind the Iron Curtain until the 1980's or 1990's, and some never returned back. Many came back to find out that their parents had long passed.
One well known example is the town of "Beloiannisz" in Hungary that was home to communist traitors, their families, and kidnapped children. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beloiannisz)

Where did I say UN existed in 1934? .......I think you people are locked into some world. I thought the communist propaganda was bad this is sad.

[thend]

1. Can you also explain what the 100th issue of "Macedonian Life" (in Greek of course) printed in 1974 have to do with the discussion? Perhaps to prove that Greeks have been calling themselves Macedonians for a long time?

-It's Macedonians tradiotional wearing9same like we are wearing today) not greek

But looking at numerous historical sources the toponims are identical to what they were 2000+ years ago (including the Biblical reference to Thessaloniki and not Solun).
Read this book:



For last here is another reason for your crisis(what a propaganda):
http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/10962/2

[mechin]

Where did I say UN existed in 1934? .......I think you people are locked into some world. I thought the communist propaganda was bad this is sad.

re-read what you wrote. Sounds like you have no sources to backup anything you've tried to claim in this discussion.

So can you tell me if Orhana criminals (Bulgarian collaborators in Axis occupied Greece) and SNOF terrorists (Communist collaborators) that butched innocent civilians should receive "reparations" from Greece as demanded by FYROM's PM? It is as laughable as Germany demanding reparations for the expulsion of Nazi collaborators from Poland! That's the world you seem to live in, but reality will forever present FYROM with a shut door since the only thing it knows how to do is historical revisionism.

[thend]

In 1977 you had no problem with our name?
From greek geography school book:

[mechin]

-It's Macedonians tradiotional wearing9same like we are wearing today) not greek

How off topic do you wish to go?

Macedonian is Greek.

But looking at numerous historical sources the toponims are identical to what they were 2000+ years ago (including the Biblical reference to Thessaloniki and not Solun).
Read this book:

Thanks for the book cover. Care to explain what it contains or you think it proves? Was Thessaloniki named Thessaloniki 2000+ years ago? Do you want to go over all the various historical cities in Macedonia that date back to before 1400AD? Was Skopia and Monastiri Greek Byzantine cities that now have a Slavic names?

[thend]

How off topic do you wish to go?

Macedonian is Greek.

Enough said i see you become nervous so i will stop here
Back on topic i will say good night to you:

[mechin]

In 1977 you had no problem with our name?

Quit being off topic. You focus on a map in one book but ignore that the official name of your country was Vardar Banovina until 1941, that the Macedonian language was created by Tito (we all know what importance the communists placed on ethnic minorities), as was your church (first time in history a communist regime established a church)! "Macedonia" was created to diminish Bulgarian influence and to steal territory from Greece.

U.S STATE DEPARTMENT
Foreign Relations Vol. VIII
Washington D.C.
Circular Airgram
(868.014/26 Dec. 1944)
The Secretary of State to Certain Diplomatic and Consular Officers*
The following is for your information and general guidance, but not for any positive action at this time.
The Department has noted with considerable apprehension increasing propaganda rumors and semi-official statements in favor of an autonomous Macedonia, emanating principally from Bulgaria, but also from Yugoslav Partisan and other sources, with the implication that Greek territory would be included in the projected state. "This Government considers talk of Macedonian "nation", Macedonian "Fatherland", or Macedonia "national consciousness" to be unjustified demagoguery representing no ethnic nor political reality, and sees in its present revival a possible cloak for aggressive intentions against Greece".
The approved policy of this Government is to oppose any revival of the Macedonian issue as related to Greece. The Greek section of Macedonia is largely inhabited by Greeks, and the Greek people are almost unanimously opposed to the creation of a Macedonian state. Allegations of serious Greek participation in any such agitation can be assumed to be false. This Government would regard as responsible any Government or group of Governments tolerating or encouraging menacing or aggressive acts of "Macedonian Forces" against Greece.
The Department would appreciate any information pertinent to this subject which may come to your attention.
Secretary of State
STETTINIUS

[thend]

Man i said goodnight ok?
http://www.scribd.com/doc/19902967/-1905
http://www.florina.org/news/2000/min...language_g.asp
Prior to 1913 the greeks in the aegean were a minority of about 10%.They even had greek embassy in Solun.All that changed when they occupied militarily & illegally

[Al-Bundy]

The amount of the younger generations getting brainwashed with the new more extreme revisionist history and maps in FYROM is amazing.

[SoSo]

What could Macedonia call itself, to answer Greek objections? What other name for the country has been proposed?

[themacedonian]

The amount of the younger generations getting brainwashed with the new more extreme revisionist history and maps in FYROM is amazing.

An example of apparent brainwashing?

[themacedonian]

What could Macedonia call itself, to answer Greek objections? What other name for the country has been proposed?

Northern Macedonia, Vardar Macedonia, a few geographical variations. None acceptable to greece.

[Al-Bundy]

An example of apparent brainwashing?

High school, college students dressed as Alexander the great and ancient Greek soldiers on every opportunity. Alexander the Great statues, classic themes and names popping up all over the country. You are turning the capital at least to a Alexander the Great theme park (more like carnival but whatever).
New maps of Ancient Macedonia, new more extreme revisionist history books in the school curriculum.
Then on parallel the promotion of "we do not share anything common with Bulgarians or other Slavic neighbors" which have made you kind of a joke when this conversation comes up between Bulgarians and Serbs. Bulgarians at least face palm themselves whenever they start to hear your new revisionist history. Most Bulgarians do not bother anymore and just give you a pat on your back and leave.

It is as if you are trying to convince yourselves more than trying to convince the rest of the world.