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Thread: Macedonia Asks to Join NATO Despite Greek Opposition

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by DS73 View Post
    Can anybody explain what the flag of Italian Kingdom is doing on this photo?
    And aren't these Bosnian rural costumes from western Bosnia?
    Greece was under triple occupation (Germany, Italy, Bulgaria), and the minority groups that assisted the Axis occupiers were Bulgarian (Ohrana) and Albanian (Chams). This picture must be earlier in the war/occupation. When the tide of war shifted, many of the Bulgarian collaborators became "Macedonians" by joining the communist SNOF.

    The official Bulgarian position at the turn of the 20th Century was for an independent/autonomous Macedonia that could later be incorporated into Bulgaria (much like they did with Eastern Rumalia/Northern Thrace). The position changed multiple times depending on various broader geopolitical considerations.

  2. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Kaiser Chief View Post
    Dear thend, are You serious or just trolling? First you say that FYROM has no territorial designs on Greece, then you talk about "Aegean Macedonia". Who is a "genetic" Greek? Who is a "genetic" Macedonian? After all those migrations that have taken place in the southern Balkans the last thing I would ressort to is Genetics.
    I just want to say that neither Greeks nor Macedonians have exclusive right on everything that happened on this teritory.If they want real facts we have them in millions(where are theirs).I really can't understand what is their "real" problem with our country.Let them write the rules that should Macedonia fullfull in order to get into NATO without their veto( i doubt they have clue).
    We have no teritorial pretensions we just want to give back the land(houses,fields..) they took from Macedonian minority after they expell them(repatriation),also give them basic rights.At the moment Greece claims that there aren't other minorities except muslim one in the western Thrace but they can't go agains europian council and human rights watch( https://wcd.coe.int/ViewDoc.jsp?id=1...rLogged=FFC679 ) .Here are some other reports http://www.florina.org/reports.asp.If you call this teritorial pretensions....

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by thend View Post
    At the moment Greece claims that there aren't other minorities except muslim one in the western Thrace but they can't go agains europian council and human rights watch( https://wcd.coe.int/ViewDoc.jsp?id=1...rLogged=FFC679 ) .Here are some other reports http://www.florina.org/reports.asp.If you call this teritorial pretensions....
    AFAIK even in the time of crisis that hit Greece hard nodoby wants to get back to Macedonia/FYROM/Albania whatever origin he is...BTW spprox. 50% of the Greek citizens have Asia Minor/Caucasus/Black Sea ancestry when they fled those areas after WWI. But as I said the whole debate is stupid since both nations lived and fought together for centuries, sharing a common faith for more than 1000 years and are now at each other because of what? Because of this asinine nationalism...that has no content or anything!

  4. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by mechin View Post
    Greece was under triple occupation (Germany, Italy, Bulgaria), and the minority groups that assisted the Axis occupiers were Bulgarian (Ohrana) and Albanian (Chams). This picture must be earlier in the war/occupation. When the tide of war shifted, many of the Bulgarian collaborators became "Macedonians" by joining the communist SNOF.

    The official Bulgarian position at the turn of the 20th Century was for an independent/autonomous Macedonia that could later be incorporated into Bulgaria (much like they did with Eastern Rumalia/Northern Thrace). The position changed multiple times depending on various broader geopolitical considerations.
    Didn't know it was so easy becaming Macedonian.
    So let me teach you something else:


    It was original interview for a greek newspaper(http://agema-makedonin.blogspot.com/...interview.html)
    All of them were fighting for Macedonian Republic and they didn't mind if they get help either from Bulgaria or other country.But as you said Bulgarians planned helping and then using them which they didn't succeed.
    Look just what was written on Goce Deltchev thomb("for freedom of Macedonia"):

    Not to mention who betraided him(greek one):
    http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive...639C946297D6CF

    All i can see that history repeats even today which is very pitty

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    There are 2 situations of such massive brainwashing propaganda .NAZI Germany of Goebbels and FYROM of Gruevski. In FYROM by years is grown anti-Greek racsism,propaganda and an enormous effort to manipulate history as its written for thousands of years. These guys over there learn at their schools that their grandpa was Alexanander the Great,that Greeks come from AFRICA,that we did genocide to them (never seen a photo or an evidence for that), that their language is Macedonian dialect comming from Alexanders Era despite the fact that their Alphabet is clearly Kyrilic one. LOL.They learn that they are native tribe despite that hole anthropologists say that SLAVS came in Balkans the 7th century AD..... And finaly they make pharaonic monuments and statues of Alexander,Phillip even the Bulgarian Samuel,in order to show their royal roots. AHAHAHAHaHAHahaH YOUR BRAINS OVER THERE ARE MELTED BY PROPAGANDA GUYS.







    Kiro Kilgorov had the balls to admit that FYROMnians have no relation of ancient Macedonia and that punk Gruevski burried him with a farmer truck..


    The problem with these crybaby guys over there is that they are the orphans of Delchev (a Bulgarian nationalist that created SNOF) ,an organization that had purpuse to claim the term,area and history of Hellenic Macedonia and make an exodus to Aegean sea for Bulgaria. Too bad he and his "liberational partisans" got pwned by the Greek warlords that came even from Crete to fight for Macedonia justice.

    FYROMians have messed in their brains the Ancient Macedonia with the First Balkan war, Second Balkan war, WW2 and Greek civil war... They are so stupid that cant understand the real name of the city is THESSALONIKI and not SOLUN. A classic FYROMian admits that Solun is the first name and the bad Greeks changed it to Thessaloniki. HAhAhAhAHAHAHAHah
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    Quote Originally Posted by thend View Post
    Didn't know it was so easy becaming Macedonian.
    All i can see that history repeats even today which is very pitty
    Wasnīt it exactly this stupid nationalism that the Ottoman Empire didnīt collapse in the Balkan wars prior to WWI? And who won this round? Not the Greeks and certainly not the Macedonians.

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    Quote Originally Posted by periandros View Post







    Kiro Kilgorov had the balls to admit that FYROMnians have no relation of ancient Macedonia and that punk Gruevski burried him with a farmer truck..
    The Arc de Triomphe Macedonaise and the Skopian Alexander statue is just too much ....sorry guys but you are making yourself so ridiculous, you have no idea...what comes next? Pharao Ramsoff the second?

  8. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Kaiser Chief View Post
    Wasnīt it exactly this stupid nationalism that the Ottoman Empire didnīt collapse in the Balkan wars prior to WWI? And who won this round? Not the Greeks and certainly not the Macedonians.
    It's not matter of winning it's mater of losing (greece has nothing to lose in this situation)

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by periandros View Post


    I was bored to post photos but yes this is what i meant when i said they are transforming their capital to a Alexander the Great theme park(carnival better) and not to forget the new naming convention in Fyrom "Alexander the Great < insert something here>", "Macedoanian <insert something here>".

    http://fbieber.files.wordpress.com/2...1102010899.jpg
    http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5204/...e46b7377cd.jpg


    PS: By the way your taste in monuments really sucks.... they are so fugly.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by NovocastrianUK View Post
    What could Macedonia contribute to the alliance? I know there are a few hundred in Afghanistan but I mean on a larger scale?
    what could Estonia, Latvia etc contribute? I'm not against or for anybody joining, just making an observation. Most countries in the alliance aren't really contributing much to begin with, they are there for the comfort of a security umbrella.

  11. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by Al-Bundy View Post
    I was bored to post photos but yes this is what i meant when i said they are transforming their capital to a Alexander the Great theme park(carnival better) and not to forget the new naming convention in Fyrom "Alexander the Great < insert something here>", "Macedoanian <insert something here>".

    http://fbieber.files.wordpress.com/2...1102010899.jpg
    http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5204/...e46b7377cd.jpg


    PS: By the way your taste in monuments really sucks.... they are so fugly.
    Nice avatar you have
    As for the monuments nobody says that we liked them also so?
    Don't be histeric it's not Alexander the Great monument.
    As for Kiro Gligorov it was his last wish the way he should be burried .
    Or you have nothing to say about other facts i gave you above, anyway nice trolling

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    Quote Originally Posted by thend View Post
    Didn't know it was so easy becaming Macedonian.
    It isn't too difficult to create a national identity, what is impossible is to try to fabricate a history that spans 2000+ years! In your case (official propaganda), all the way back to the first white person ("Makedonoids" - progenitors of the White race).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedon...er_%28video%29

    Now care to explain why the "Macedonians" didn't have a history of revolt or nation-building while under Byzantine or Ottoman dominion? All the other ethnic groups in the Balkans do, so feel free to explain that away with the two options available (didn't exist or cowards). Feel free to also explain why every early "Macedonian" liberation effort was directed or orchestrated from Bulgaria. Explain why the Slavs of Macedonia assisted the Bulgarian occupiers and joined the Ohrana. Explain why the "Macedonians" couldn't even create their own autonomous church structure until Tito (a communist) decided it was expedient for his brainwashing and expansionist efforts.

    As far off-topic as you're trying to take this you're only cementing every reason you don't belong in NATO.

  13. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by mechin View Post
    It isn't too difficult to create a national identity, what is impossible is to try to fabricate a history that spans 2000+ years! In your case (official propaganda), all the way back to the first white person ("Makedonoids" - progenitors of the White race).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonian_Prayer_(video)

    Now care to explain why the "Macedonians" didn't have a history of revolt or nation-building while under Byzantine or Ottoman dominion? All the other ethnic groups in the Balkans do, so feel free to explain that away with the two options available (didn't exist or cowards). Feel free to also explain why every early "Macedonian" liberation effort was directed or orchestrated from Bulgaria. Explain why the Slavs of Macedonia assisted the Bulgarian occupiers and joined the Ohrana. Explain why the "Macedonians" couldn't even create their own autonomous church structure until Tito (a communist) decided it was expedient for his brainwashing and expansionist efforts.

    As far off-topic as you're trying to take this you're only cementing every reason you don't belong in NATO.
    Honestly i think you have no clue what are you talking about(you're contradicting yourself).
    First you're saying that Macedonians have no history of revolt or nation-building(obviosly you didn't read anything i posted above especially nikola karev interview) and afterwards you are mentioning ""Macedonian" liberation effort" "assisted the Bulgarian occupiers and joined the Ohrana" bla bla.
    To be honest i can answer all the questions you asked again with facts from GREEK HISTORICIANS but having the fact that you're ignoring everything wrote above i wont.

  14. #89
    L O L A JCR's Avatar
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    No matter if Macedonia or FYROM, please get better architects.
    Those monuments are monuments to nothing but bad taste and dishonor everybody supposed to be honoured by them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JCR View Post
    No matter if Macedonia or FYROM, please get better architects.
    Those monuments are monuments to nothing but bad taste and dishonor everybody supposed to be honoured by them.
    The monuments in the picture are not finished,they are part of project "Skopje 2014" which will also be end date when they are gonna be finished:

    But as i mentioned before not everyone agree with this project and here were lot of debates about it.
    Not knowing Macedonian history it is hard to tell whether they will dishonor everybody supposed to be honoured by them.

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