Japanese mayor denies Nanjing massacre

[plato]

What is inaccurate? Whether Japanese soldiers intentionally killed 10,000; 100,000; 300,000 in Nanjing? Even if they intentionally shot 1 innocent civilian it would have been wrong.

The error here is not one of numbers, the error here is that Japan shows no desire to tell its own people any form of the truth nor own up to its own actions.

Anything else but that is an attempt to ignore the real problem.

What is the "real problem"? Let us not ignore it.

[Eventine]

There is no real problem. All it demonstrates is that the Japanese are as bad as everyone else in the region. Not something they like to think, but when it comes down to it there's nothing special about them.

[bravosixniner]

Lol for a second I confused MP.NET with your run of the mill Chinese BB.

[shinigami]

I am Japanese I think there is amazing how people who probably do not know Japanese or Japan and has formed opinion of how more than 120 million people think. The Japan of today is not where you and China and educated to see only what the government wants you to believe, I think there are people who read a lot 2CH that most of the comments made ​​by Otakus and that has nothing to do, living in retirement at the expense of the parents, to form opinion on how the Japanese think. Without commenting on the trolls who post every day since it is not necessary to post any record.

[braveheartnju]

I am Japanese I think there is amazing how people who probably do not know Japanese or Japan and has formed opinion of how more than 120 million people think. The Japan of today is not where you and China and educated to see only what the government wants you to believe, I think there are people who read a lot 2CH that most of the comments made ​​by Otakus and that has nothing to do, living in retirement at the expense of the parents, to form opinion on how the Japanese think. Without commenting on the trolls who post every day since it is not necessary to post any record.

it is not only educated, yes, nearly all Chinese know and believe the Nanjing Massacre, including many westerns witness it, because it really happened, most of Chinese families suffered from this invasion war including my family (my grandfather's elder brother and sister were killed by Japanese). if you are not completely ignorance, you should see the archives of 1945-1946, at that time, it proves that at least 260000 (not very accurate, because the war trial is very fast going) people were killed during Nanjing Massacre. With the strictly research developed, more and more evidence were found. these 30 years, with the huge construction in China and Nanjing, more and more mass graves are found which nobody knew these before, so the number of victims is actually increasing not decreasing. in 1996, a new astonishing fact was found in Nanjing, the Unit 1644, a similar nuit like Unit 731 in the North and East China, some mass graves shows the living body experiments, and many other evidences. the ironic thing is it is an old Japanese confess the existence of this unit for his guilty, he kept this secret for many years and want let the world know this before he die, and researchers found this place. that means there may still many un-know facts hidden by Japanese.

unit 1644:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_1644
many other special units: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Research_Units

now many researchers agree that the number of victims is about 260000-340000, therefore 300000 is a number show the scale of this massacre, not the exact number. there are huge archives, evidence, locations, research reports in China.

Japanese may have different views about Nanjing Massacre, but like Chinese can remember Nanjing Massacre, they always remember Atomic bombing, i believe nearly all Japanese believe there were two atomic bombing, it is not only educated by history books, but also, it really happened and many Japanese witness.

the tragedy for Japanese is you can only admit you are the victims but do not believe you are the perpetrators at the same time.

[shinigami]

The poster plato said that the Chinese argument can be very simple. Yet, the Japanese argument can be even more simple. All the Japanese have to say is something to the effect of: Look, we're sorry and ashamed for what happened during World War II. War is hell, but that doesn't excuse what we did. No apology will ever be sufficient for the people we killed, so the best we can do is ensure that it never happens again.

I would say that if it was not this way that the population think the politicians would not appeal to some revisionism. With the majority of the population with this thought, not of to justify spending more on defense and not for the country to assume a position in the world. It turns out that some politicians think necessary the return of nationalism, and these movements bother the neighbors. And easier to rob a child or a police officer?

But instead of doing this, the Japanese put up photos of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and say: Look how horrible war is [when it happens on Japanese soil]. This is why we Japanese have become pacifists [because you made us bleed our own blood]. The rest of the world need to follow our example to ensure that war [on Japanese soil] never happens again.

If the Japanese really think that way because of it, with absolute certainty does not exist and the SDF or more of the Us military bases in Japan. http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg811...gif&res=medium And Japan would never have developed this family of rockets, missiles that are disguised and not invested in nuclear research and even save 40 tons of plutonium.

[shinigami]

it is not only educated, yes, nearly all Chinese know and believe the Nanjing Massacre, including many westerns witness it, because it really happened, most of Chinese families suffered from this invasion war including my family (my grandfather's elder brother and sister were killed by Japanese). if you are not completely ignorance, you should see the archives of 1945-1946, at that time, it proves that at least 260000 people were killed during Nanjing Massacre. With the strictly research developed, more and more evidence were found. these 30 years, with the huge construction in China and Nanjing, more and more mass graves are found which nobody knew these before, so the number of victims is actually increasing not decreasing. in 1996, a new astonishing fact was found in Nanjing, the Unit 1644, a similar nuit like Unit 731 in the North and East China, some mass graves shows the living body experiments, and many other evidences. Japanese may have different views about Nanjing Massacre, but like Chinese can remember Nanjing Massacre, they always remember Atomic bombing, i believe nearly all Japanese believe there were two atomic bombing, it is not only educated by history books, but also, it really happened and many Japanese witness. the tragedy for Japanese is you can only admit you are the victims but do not believe you are the perpetrators at the same time.

Ok, if 10% of Japanese think the way described, and some are politicians, you think the rest of 90% of Japanese support and feel the same way that the 10%? If China were taught to perfection throughout the period of the war, you should know that it had many large Japanese politicians and generals who were against the war, but most were murdered to make way for those who supported the war. Now I ask you the war ended many years already, I knew not the war and never killed anyone, I have the obligation to feel guilty for the rest of my life for some stupid mistakes committed in the past because I'm Japanese??

[braveheartnju]

Ok, if 10% of Japanese think the way described, and some are politicians, you think the rest of 90% of Japanese support and feel the same way that the 10%? If China were taught to perfection throughout the period of the war, you should know that it had many large Japanese politicians and generals who were against the war, but most were murdered to make way for those who supported the war. Now I ask you the war ended many years already, I knew not the war and never killed anyone, I have the obligation to feel guilty for the rest of my life for some stupid mistakes committed in the past because I'm Japanese??

nope, i always think only some Japanese think Nanjing Massacre is fabricated, i have many Japanese friends, I personally have no hatred to Japanese and i always think Japanese have some characters that worth Chinese to learn. But what i concern is the politicians, as someone comments above, politicians are different from ordinaries, ordinaries can say anything he want within the law, but politician must have higher standard, Nagoya is a major city with brilliant place in Japan and Japanese history, the mayor of this great city make this horrible statement is a shame and worth the warning of Chinese, S. Korea and other neighbors. i am not charge you, you are innocent, i believe, and i feel you are a frank man indeed from your words. no one want to make you feel guilty initiatively, but this time it is the mayor of Nagoya initiatively deny the existence of NM, and his hidden words is Chinese are lying and fabricate the Nanjing Massacre. it is not that Chinese want to hurt Japanese or want Japanese feel guilty, but a Japanese mayor want to hurt Chinese. obviously, who should be blamed? yes, is not you, but a mayor of major Japanese city, right?

and abviously, your identify you as a Japanese, otherwise, you will not have a hidden sense of uncomfortable, and enter in this discussion when we talking NM or talking this Japanese mayor. but you really do not need feel guilty, you are you, you are only responsible for yourself and your moral standard, no matter how others doing, it will not affect you as a good person. cheers

[freespeech]

and even save 40 tons of plutonium.

Save 40 tons of plutonium for what?Revenge for Hiroshima&Nagasaki ?

Incidentally this Japanese mayor is an absolute idiot.

[shinigami]

nope, i always think only some Japanese think Nanjing Massacre is fabricated, i have many Japanese friends, I personally have no hatred to Japanese and i always think Japanese have some characters that worth Chinese to learn. But what i concern is the politicians, as someone comments above, politicians are different from ordinaries, ordinaries can say anything he want within the law, but politician must have higher standard, Nagoya is a major city with brilliant place in Japan and Japanese history, the mayor of this great city make this horrible statement is a shame and worth the warning of Chinese, S. Korea and other neighbors. i am not charge you, you are innocent, i believe, and i feel you are a frank man indeed from your words. no one want to make you feel guilty initiatively, but this time it is the mayor of Nagoya initiatively deny the existence of NM, and his hidden words is Chinese are lying and fabricate the Nanjing Massacre. it is not that Chinese want to hurt Japanese or want Japanese feel guilty, but a Japanese mayor want to hurt Chinese. obviously, who should be blamed? yes, is not you, but a mayor of major Japanese city, right? and abviously, your identify you as a Japanese, otherwise, you will not have a hidden sense of uncomfortable, and enter in this discussion when we talking NM or talking this Japanese mayor. but you really do not need feel guilty, you are you, you are only responsible for yourself and your moral standard, no matter how others doing, it will not affect you as a good person. cheers

In this case I agree with your words, I do not agree with the opinion of this mayor, and not on revisionism of history. In Japan there are many problems, some of them are the fact that people are not obliged to vote and choose their leaders today Japan is going through several political transformations in the last 50 years the country was ruled by only one party, the government that is today in power for more than there is trouble between the neighbors and clearly in favor of a rapprochement just between China and South Korea It turns out that many politicians, some with up to fascist thinking even now affiliated with the ruling party does not agree with the policies of the current government, when the mayor made ​​this unfortunate declaration may think that he was endorsing the thought of all the Japanese, when in fact can be an individual movement of thought it may be a movement to pressure the central government, may be an attempt to demonstrate their interest in a new political class, can be many things, there is now a movement of formation of several new political parties in Japan , this will only become clearer when these groups are formed. What worries me most and the disinterest of Japanese do not own vote and choose their rulers, as it is not compulsory to vote, there is a risk in the future Japan again be ruled by politicians who I would argue fascist ideals.

[shinigami]

Save 40 tons of plutonium for what?Revenge for Hiroshima&Nagasaki ? Incidentally this Japanese mayor is an absolute idiot.

For you see how things are, while the Japanese rulers claim to defend the end of atomic weapons, Japan itself has developed the ability to build an arsenal in less than four months, and stocks an amount of plutonium that could exterminate all people on earth.

[plato]

In this case I agree with your words, I do not agree with the opinion of this mayor, and not on revisionism of history. In Japan there are many problems, some of them are the fact that people are not obliged to vote and choose their leaders today Japan is going through several political transformations in the last 50 years the country was ruled by only one party, the government that is today in power for more than there is trouble between the neighbors and clearly in favor of a rapprochement just between China and South Korea It turns out that many politicians, some with up to fascist thinking even now affiliated with the ruling party does not agree with the policies of the current government, when the mayor made ​​this unfortunate declaration may think that he was endorsing the thought of all the Japanese, when in fact can be an individual movement of thought it may be a movement to pressure the central government, may be an attempt to demonstrate their interest in a new political class, can be many things, there is now a movement of formation of several new political parties in Japan , this will only become clearer when these groups are formed. What worries me most and the disinterest of Japanese do not own vote and choose their rulers, as it is not compulsory to vote, there is a risk in the future Japan again be ruled by politicians who I would argue fascist ideals.

In your opinion, do you think Mayor Takashi Kawamura can get reelected or not? Thanks!

[plato]

This is getting more interesting:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp...7a3ebe2909.561

Tokyo governor backs Nanjing massacre denial

AFP) – 12 hours ago TOKYO — Tokyo's outspoken conservative governor Shintaro Ishihara on Friday said he agreed with the mayor of Nagoya's statement that the 1937 'rape' of Nanjing by Japanese troops never happened................

Also, I am seeing some Chinese, still a minority of Chinese, starting to question their accounts of Nanjing massacre. Just like how I predicted earlier in this thread. Any rational person, Chinese or not, will see that there are indeed problems if you examine the history more carefully.


The right-wing is attacking the weak point of Chinese government. The CCP have been consistently producing inaccurate history. This is a slippery slope that they don't want to touch. The Japanese right-wings are betting on the CCP to contain this issue rather than making it full-blown. However, it seems the Japanese conservatives want to make this issue as public as possible. It is going to be interesting to watch what is going to happen next. I predict the Chinese government will try to contain this.

[subotai]

This is getting more interesting:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp...7a3ebe2909.561

Also, I am seeing some Chinese, still a minority of Chinese, starting to question their accounts of Nanjing massacre. Just like how I predicted earlier in this thread. Any rational person, Chinese or not, will see that there are indeed problems if you examine the history more carefully.

OK dude, I have put up with this and your BS long enough. In my opinion denying Nanjing is like denying the Holocaust. Let me tell you a story. I live in the upper Midwest, and one of the retired doctors here in town is from near Nanjing and I heard this account from him. His family lived about 10km downriver from Nanjing. They could not flee and decided to stay on their land instead of the safety of the city. Nanjing as a city did not hold out long, the Japanese entered and within a week had started massacring civilians. Their farm was next to the yangtze and for the next month hundreds and thousands of bodies a day would flow past their farm or be plucked out of the water and off the shore. These bodies had been shot, hacked, bayoneted or dismembered and the river ran red.

I have spoken to this man and others like him. I have looked into his eyes and heard the tremor in his voice. I have been to Nanjing and see the bones and the ruins. His account was not a figment of his imagination.

Want some pictures of bodies from Nanjing:
https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/im...P6PEH1NMrMGsag
https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/im...5t9kbrM74jcRRQ
https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/im...gN6WoOl0OuZ60w
https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/im...3e3OaYDxtSmcds
https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/im...WBbPBco--6EqjA
https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/im...XZ1h8CCm47gO7g
http://www.arts.ualberta.ca/~jbrown/...jing_women.gif

Here is something else. The accounts and counts from Nanjing did not come from the communist party. They came from the KMT (which had its capitol and troops there) and the CCP has not done anything to change those accounts or numbers. This is not some grand conspiracy from the CCP.

So take your revisionist shyte about Nanjing and the other crap that Japan did in China, print it on a large metal cylinder and shove it into whatever orifice of yours gives you the most displeasure.

[EdisonTrent]

Is it wrong to get a kick out of this?