Japanese mayor denies Nanjing massacre

[shinigami]

Good old Unit 731

There is no doubt that the unity which existed 731 civilians used to test biological weapons, what is questioned is the number of victims that were affected and those who died.

[Rahlgd]

Most Japanese are aware that atrocities were commited by the IJA during WWII, however due to the downplaying or total exclusion of in depth accounts of these atrocities published in Japan, many Japanese think that the attrocities were small isolated events which were punished. Since they were not given much attention many Japanese think that Chinese claims that the Japanese commited mass war crimes are a fabrication much like how we in the west dismiss many claims of how the US embarks on "quests to destroy Islam".

The average Japanese knows atrocities took place but typically have no idea of the scope and maliciousness of said war crimes. They believe they were limited small events and that Korean and Chinese nationalists use them to rally around. The overwhelming majority of the Japanese know they got their asses kicked for starting a war but they see it as a stain on what they see as an otherwise untarnished history so they are very touchy about it to the extent where they get angry when its brought up rather than apologize for it.

Without a doubt, Japan has some very heinous actions to answer for but it does seem as the Chinese over use the Nanjing massacre to display how evil the Japanese (and all outsiders) are. The screwed up thing is that through all this finger pointing and blaming, many of the victims who are still alive go largely ignored and the governments continue to make a game out of this whole terrible ordeal.

[Laworkerbee]

There is no doubt that the unity which existed 731 civilians used to test biological weapons, what is questioned is the number of victims that were affected and those who died.

Bullshit revisionist questions you mean; with help from the American government no doubt who invited the commander of Unit 731 to come work for us.

Your governments numbers mean absolute shit, you should be embarrassed to even bring up being victims of the atomic bomb considering the crimes Japan commited under 731. Your government and army didn't just use citizens, they used prisoners of war, these people were killed in horrendous ways and were used as living test subjects.

Writing this, I'm going to find out where the unit commander for 731 is buried, if he is in the states I'm going to dig that asshole up and send him some place special.

[Nyusu]

The mayor of Tokyo is an old fool to put him in power he would exterminate all the Chinese and Koreans from the earth, for it to Japan to live isolated from the world as in the past. But do not worry then he must withdraw from the policy area.

Didnt he just create a new party to participate in next parliament election?

[SBL]

That guy always says stuff like that.

[Rahlgd]

Bullshit revisionist questions you mean; with help from the American government no doubt who invited the commander of Unit 731 to come work for us.

Your governments numbers mean absolute shit, you should be embarrassed to even bring up being victims of the atomic bomb considering the crimes Japan commited under 731. Your government and army didn't just use citizens, they used prisoners of war, these people were killed in horrendous ways and were used as living test subjects.

Writing this, I'm going to find out where the unit commander for 731 is buried, if he is in the states I'm going to dig that asshole up and send him some place special.

Some claims say he's buried in Maryland, others say at the Yasukuni shrine. It's a state secret either way. If it were known where he's buried he already would have been dug up and desecrated like he deserves.

[shinigami]

Bullshit revisionist questions you mean; with help from the American government no doubt who invited the commander of Unit 731 to come work for us. Your governments numbers mean absolute shit, you should be embarrassed to even bring up being victims of the atomic bomb considering the crimes Japan commited under 731. Your government and army didn't just use citizens, they used prisoners of war, these people were killed in horrendous ways and were used as living test subjects. Writing this, I'm going to find out where the unit commander for 731 is buried, if he is in the states I'm going to dig that asshole up and send him some place special.

Really know how many people were affected, and especially important for the victims because many civic organizations in Japan have already tried to rake in the money to try to repair the victims and families affected governments but usually not in any way help solve these problems but are trading accusations for eternity.

[California Joe]

This thread needs Omega7.

[shinigami]

Didnt he just create a new party to participate in next parliament election?

I'd forgotten it's true are trying to create a new party, but I doubt it has support from the population would be equal to the Japanese Socialist Party, talk so much nonsense that the desire to laugh out loud.

[braveheartnju]

He denies the numbers killed in the atrocities like 20 thousand dead, the numbers were increased to 200 000, 2 million ... 20 million ... all depends on the education that people receive.

oh, man, please do not use Japanese phycho to imagine Chinese, the victim number is a very serious things, so no one in China deem this as a toy or tool. 300000 common people is a widely accepted number in China and many other countries, some Japanese said the number only 20000? i can tell you that i have visit one of the largest mass graves in Nanjing, called Cao Xiexia in the riverside of Yangtze, at least 50000 bodies were found in this place. Japanese dig many deep and large pits, then they pushed and drove Chinese into these pits by machine guns, after one group was killed, they cast soil on the bodies and then drove the second group into the pits and killed them, and repeatedly, so you can find that in these pits, one layer of bodies and one layer of soil, one by one. Cao Xiexia Mass Graves is just one of the many Mass Graves during Nanjing Massacre. Many others were killed scattered. many people from Shanghai and Wuxi, they were killed on the boat and their bodies were flushed out by the river and these numbers were not count in.

Nanjing has a Memorial Hall of the victims in Nanjing Massacre, if you doubt the number, i suggest you visit this place and then express your new opinion. the number of 300000 was accepted by KMT in 1940s and CCP later. Chinese do not intent to use this number as a tool to raise hate to Japanese, China lost more than 23 million lives during the Japanese invasion from 1931-1945, so 20000 or 300000 lives in Nanjing is tiny to the whole number. KMT and CCP waive the compensation have already proved that China forgive Japan (but never forget), so it is no need to use fabricated number to condemn Japan again. Do you know there are huge Japanese orphans left in 1945 in the North East China？ They were adopted by the locals and many locals gave their best to raise these poor Japanese orphans. in 1970s, these orphans returned Japan but they still missed their Chinese parents and visit back many times. and similar stories can be found all over China. If you truly know Chinese, you will find the kind deep in their nature.

again, many Japanese can deny 300000 (most widely accepted number except some right-wing Japanese), or they can deny 200000, 50000, 20000, or the existence of Nanjing Massacre completely. But it is no use for them to deny at least 23 million Chinese died during the Japanese invasion. So, i have to say that do not use the suspicious mind of a mean person to a gentleman's magnanimity.

Japanese has many great characters, but also has some very obvious defects. you can read a book called The Chrysanthemum and the Sword written by Benedict. This book can explain why US decided to use atom bombs to end the war and Japan is the only one tasted the Atom Bomb in our world. Cheers

[plato]

Here are some facts to consider:

1. Most Japanese, including the government and extreme right wing members, do not deny atrocities occurred during WWII. They just don't agree with the Chinese accounts.
2. There are MANY holes in the Chinese official accounts.

The Japanese right-wing members are quite rational actually because that is how they win over the Japanese population. These right-wing people sought out these undefendable Chinese mistakes or sometime just straight-out fabrications, and presented them in an empirical matter to the world. Of course, this is a typical "poisoning the well" tactic. They are trying to make the Chinese look like liars.

Now, the problem is that the Chinese never responded in a rational matter to these mistakes. Again, this irrational Chinese response feeds the Japanese right-wing propaganda machine. Now, the right-wing has successfully hijacked this issue into a "are we the Japanese people gona be forced to accept these lies made up by the Chinese..."

When the Japanese refuse to accept, then the Chinese will scream: "look at these bastards! They deny atrocities....", but in fact THEY DO NOT. They just don't accept the Chinese version.

[braveheartnju]

Here are some facts to consider:

1. Most Japanese, including the government and extreme right wing members, do not deny atrocities occurred during WWII. They just don't agree with the Chinese accounts.
2. There are MANY holes in the Chinese official accounts.

The Japanese right-wing members are quite rational actually because that is how they win over the Japanese population. These right-wing people sought out these undefendable Chinese mistakes or sometime just straight-out fabrications, and presented them in an empirical matter to the world. Of course, this is a typical "poisoning the well" tactic. They are trying to make the Chinese look like liars.

Now, the problem is that the Chinese never responded in a rational matter to these mistakes. Again, this irrational Chinese response feeds the Japanese right-wing propaganda machine. Now, the right-wing has successfully hijacked this issue into a "are we the Japanese people gona be forced to accept these lies made up by the Chinese..."

what you have mentioned is only a game which the Japanese right-wing enjoy themselves, it is very rare that non-right-wing seriously consider this game. And the wisdom tell us that it is no use to persuade someone to face the fact from true heart if they intent to refuse the fact, it is just waste time, can you persuade Bin Laden to give up his radical thought? can you persuade him to face the fact how evil he is? can you persuade him to admit nearly all he killed are innocents?

some Japanese like to play this HOLE game and i can tell you there are many holes in this number, in the war time, without modern ID system, huge people were killed without any things left, no one remember them or even know their existence. But can you tell me, can Israel give the accurate number of jews killed by NAZI? there are no holes in this number? can Japan give accurate number of Japanese killed by the atom bombs? no holes? if you can not give the accurate number, can i say there is no massacre to jews and the atomic bombing in Japan is fabricated? Thanks god, there are still someone in this world are honest, at least, US admits killing many Japanese by atom bombing and German admits killing many jews. Germans are highly logic than Japanese, they can much more easily to point the holes on the numbers of Jews, but they did not, this is why Chinese think Germans are much more respectful and superior than Japanese on this issue.

and you mentioned the Japanese right-wing propaganda machine, again, you use a kind of typical Japanese think style which some Japanese have, you said that it is Chinese inaccurate number to cause this. but in fact, it is Japanese right wing's fault not Chinese. Nanjing Massacre have already been admitted by all of the countries in the WWII in the war trial in Tokyo and Nanjing from 1945-1946 (including Japanese government), a lot of archives can prove this. that means, even Japanese government admitted Nanjing Massacre. but why so many politicians deny this? the reason is so simple, Japanese government never truly realize their faults. so it is very easy to understand that all War Criminals are worshiped in Japan and many old IJA is still and important political power in Japan.

300000 people killed is a very acceptable and credible number, if Japanese killed only one or two people, i can give you very accurate number because it is very easy to count, but Japanese killed around 300000 people in a so short time (4 weeks) and so many in so chaos and changing situation, it is absolutely reasonable that there are holes in this number. Chinese have common sense, they will not waste time to persuade Japanese right-wing to accept there was a Nanjing Massacre, just like US will never waste time to persuade Bin Laden to give up his thought. So let these Japanese right-wing and politicians play their own HOLE game.

[braveheartnju]

Here are some facts to consider:

1. Most Japanese, including the government and extreme right wing members, do not deny atrocities occurred during WWII. They just don't agree with the Chinese accounts.
2. There are MANY holes in the Chinese official accounts.

The Japanese right-wing members are quite rational actually because that is how they win over the Japanese population. These right-wing people sought out these undefendable Chinese mistakes or sometime just straight-out fabrications, and presented them in an empirical matter to the world. Of course, this is a typical "poisoning the well" tactic. They are trying to make the Chinese look like liars.

Now, the problem is that the Chinese never responded in a rational matter to these mistakes. Again, this irrational Chinese response feeds the Japanese right-wing propaganda machine. Now, the right-wing has successfully hijacked this issue into a "are we the Japanese people gona be forced to accept these lies made up by the Chinese..."

When the Japanese refuse to accept, then the Chinese will scream: "look at these bastards! They deny atrocities....", but in fact THEY DO NOT. They just don't accept the Chinese version.

and you mentioned the atrocities including Nanjing Massacre? again, your words make me very confusing, it is completely un-logic.

if your atrocities including Nanjing Massacre, then Japanese politicians words which i attached here can prove you are lying.
if your atrocities does not including Nanjing Massacre, from the fact that Japanese extreme right wing members(many politicians) deny Nanjing Massacre, and we all know that Nanjing Massacre is a most famous atrocity, so Japanese right wing members DO deny atrocities occurred during WWII, therefore it also prove you are lying.

you words are really have many many holes, chaos-logic and self-conflict.

[plato]

what you have mentioned is only a game which the Japanese right-wing enjoy themselves, it is very rare that non-right-wing seriously consider this game. And the wisdom tell us that it is no use to persuade someone to face the fact from true heart if they intent to refuse the fact, it is just waste time, can you persuade Bin Laden to give up his radical thought? can you persuade him to face the fact how evil he is? can you persuade him to admit nearly all he killed are innocents?

some Japanese like to play this HOLE game and i can tell you there are many holes in this number, in the war time, without modern ID system, huge people were killed without any things left, no one remember them or even know their existence. But can you tell me, can Israel give the accurate number of jews killed by NAZI? there are no holes in this number? can Japan give accurate number of Japanese killed by the atom bombs? no holes? if you can not give the accurate number, can i say there is no massacre to jews and the atomic bombing in Japan is fabricated? Thanks god, there are still someone in this world are honest, at least, US admits killing many Japanese by atom bombing and German admits killing many jews.

and you mentioned the Japanese right-wing propaganda machine, again, you use a kind of typical Japanese think style which some Japanese have, you said that it is Chinese inaccurate number to cause this. but in fact, it is Japanese right wing's fault not Chinese. Nanjing Massacre have already been admitted by all of the countries in the WWII in the war trial in Tokyo and Nanjing from 1945-1946 (including Japanese government), a lot of achieves can prove this. that means, even Japanese government admitted Nanjing Massacre. but why so many politicians deny this? the reason is so simple, Japanese government never truly realize their faults. so it is very easy to understand that all War Criminals are worshiped in Japan and many old IJA is still and important political power in Japan.

300000 people killed is a very acceptable and credible number, if Japanese killed only one or two people, i can give you very accurate number because it is very easy to count, but Japanese killed around 300000 people in a so short time (4 weeks) and so many in so chaos and changing situation, it is absolutely reasonable that there are holes in this number. Chinese have common sense, they will not waste time to persuade Japanese right-wing to accept there was a Nanjing Massacre, just like US will never waste time to persuade Bin Laden to give up his thought. So let these Japanese right-wing and politicians play their own HOLE game.

You said that, I never mentioned a word about "number". Inaccurate accounts may or may not include the issues with "number". To most non-right-wing Japanese the "number" issue is the least of the problems they have with Chinese accounts. The right-wing have successfully discredited the Chinese. It is a credibility issue. The reasoning is simple. If you lie on one aspect, then you might lie on other aspects. It could just simply be mistakes, but the Chinese have refused to address these obvious errors. Therefore, mistakes are now considered as deliberate lies. It is hard for Chinese to address these errors because they were pointed out by the right-wings. But, here is the problem. Errors are errors regardless who pointed them out.

[plato]

and you mentioned the atrocities including Nanjing Massacre? again, your words make me very confusing, it is completely un-logic.

if your atrocities including Nanjing Massacre, then Japanese politicians words which i attached here can prove you are lying.
if your atrocities does not including Nanjing Massacre, from the fact that Japanese extreme right wing members(many politicians) deny Nanjing Massacre, and we all know that Nanjing Massacre is a most famous atrocity, so Japanese right wing members DO deny atrocities occurred during WWII, therefore it also prove you are lying.

you words are really have many many holes, chaos-logic and self-conflict.

Well, above is just a sample of "irrational Chinese" view point. These types of responses are indeed very annoying to the Japanese population.