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Thread: Russia Tells Norway To Keep Aegis BMD System off Vessels

  1. #121
    Senior Member szr's Avatar
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    Maybe Gen. Nikolai Makarov, Chief of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Russia and First Deputy Minister of Defence, was thinking of Japan when he said "Norway."..?

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    Quote Originally Posted by memfisa View Post
    Attachment 173609

    Dont know if you can see that clearly, its small as hell

    Oh and BTW your frigate is very sexy
    Sorry thats to small for my eyes

    But I think the SM3 fits in the MK41 VLS. Although I'm not sure if it's possible to modify the SPY-1F radar to BMD capability.

    There has also been criticism on the usage of the AEGIS system and the SPY-1F radar, as some fear its interoperability with other AEGIS Class vessels may be used to support the US missile defense, which remains a controversial issue. While its Link-11 capabilities allow basic level integration into US Navy groups, and Co-operative Engagement Capability could be installed quickly if not already present, the SPY-1F differs from the SPY-1D(V) in that it has not been designed to provide ballistic missile defense capability through software and hardware modifications. Such tasks are also beyond the capabilities of the Fridtjof Nansen Class’ ESSM air-defense missiles.
    http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...versies-02329/

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    Senior Member memfisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mablod View Post
    Sorry thats to small for my eyes

    But I think the SM3 fits in the MK41 VLS. Although I'm not sure if it's possible to modify the SPY-1F radar to BMD capability.



    http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...versies-02329/
    There are several versions of the Mk41 VLS, different number of cells, and with varying lengths for different applications like a frigate, a destroyer, cruiser etc.

    For instance Canadian DDG's have a 29 cell Mk41 which can accept SM2MR, ESSM, etc, but the cells are not long enough to accept a SM2ER or SM3 because the seperate booster would not allow the hatch to be shut, presenting a mickey mouse situation

    If required, anyone feel free to correct me

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by memfisa View Post
    There are several versions of the Mk41 VLS, different number of cells, and with varying lengths for different applications like a frigate, a destroyer, cruiser etc.

    For instance Canadian DDG's have a 29 cell Mk41 which can accept SM2MR, ESSM, etc, but the cells are not long enough to accept a SM2ER or SM3 because the seperate booster would not allow the hatch to be shut, presenting a mickey mouse situation

    If required, anyone feel free to correct me
    Yes I know, but in the article I posted aboce it says:

    RIM-162 ESSM Launch
    The new frigates’ air defense fields a different layout of the Mk 41 VLS system compared to the F100, with 32 launch cells for Evolved Sea Sparrow Missiles (ESSM) in 8 vertical launch modules. While the Mk.41 VLS can also accommodate longer-range SM-2 or SM-3 Standard missiles, each Mk.41 cell can hold 4 ESSMs instead of one SM-2.
    But maybe they mean the Mk41 in general, and not specifically the one on the Nansen class?

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    I think Nordic countries should get nuclear weapons. Deploy them to Swedish subs, Norwegian/Icelandic missile silos/ships and Finish AF. Sweden actually had a quite successful nuclear program in 60's, it's sad that the hippies got into power and closed it. If you ever visit Stockholm, I do advise you to visit "war" museum on Riddars gatan (I'm not sure about spelling). I went there when I was on booze cruise between Helsinki and Stockholm and wasn't disappointed. Got to handle different weapons from AK4 to older infantry weapons that the Swedes have used. Saw some mysterious peaces used in their nuclear program etc...

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    Quote Originally Posted by snowflakes View Post
    I think Nordic countries should get nuclear weapons. Deploy them to Swedish subs, Norwegian/Icelandic missile silos/ships and Finish AF. Sweden actually had a quite successful nuclear program in 60's, it's sad that the hippies got into power and closed it. If you ever visit Stockholm, I do advise you to visit "war" museum on Riddars gatan (I'm not sure about spelling). I went there when I was on booze cruise between Helsinki and Stockholm and wasn't disappointed. Got to handle different weapons from AK4 to older infantry weapons that the Swedes have used. Saw some mysterious peaces used in their nuclear program etc...
    Looks like you're on booze again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snowflakes View Post
    I think Nordic countries should get nuclear weapons. Deploy them to Swedish subs, Norwegian/Icelandic missile silos/ships and Finish AF. Sweden actually had a quite successful nuclear program in 60's, it's sad that the hippies got into power and closed it. If you ever visit Stockholm, I do advise you to visit "war" museum on Riddars gatan (I'm not sure about spelling). I went there when I was on booze cruise between Helsinki and Stockholm and wasn't disappointed. Got to handle different weapons from AK4 to older infantry weapons that the Swedes have used. Saw some mysterious peaces used in their nuclear program etc...
    The mind is a terrible thing to waste. Im afraid you only get one, once

    Quote Originally Posted by Mablod View Post
    Yes I know, but in the article I posted aboce it says:



    But maybe they mean the Mk41 in general, and not specifically the one on the Nansen class?
    I agree with this

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy_UA View Post
    Looks like you're on booze again.
    Or maybe you don't like my idea and maybe you should lay off with a ad hominems.

    The most European countries could develop nuclear weapons in a short order if they wanted to. They have chosen not to and I think it's mistake, ultimately Russia believes only force. Luckily French and UK have had bit more street smarts and have enough nukes to make any country think twice before attacking EU.

    End of the day, it's not Russias business what Norway does with her ships. Especially as long as they have Russian nukes pointed towards them.

  9. #129

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loke2 View Post
    I was surprised to hear that we could fit a BMD system on our Nansen ships -- I did not know that!

    There are 3 types of MK41 and not all of them can fit SM-3 missiles.... My previous understanding was that the Nansen MK41 was too small to accept an SM-3. OTOH that may still be correct; they do have only 1 8-cell MK41 each but space to add some more cells. Perhaps there is sufficient space to add SM-3 capable MK41s?

    Anyway this is all highly theoretical, it's not going to happen. The navy budget is extremely limited, we can barely afford to operate the current Nansen.
    The Nansen class has strike lenght Mk 41 VLS, and should be able to carry SM-3.

    The frigates are delivered with one 8-cell launcher with ESSM, except the last, KNM Thor Heyerdahl, which was delivered with with two launchers. This extra launcher, and any additional weapons are not mentioned in the defense budget, or anywhere else afaik. Perharps the launcher is a "gift" from the US, with some interesting inside

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    Quote Originally Posted by snowflakes View Post
    I think Nordic countries should get nuclear weapons. Deploy them to Swedish subs, Norwegian/Icelandic missile silos/ships and Finish AF. Sweden actually had a quite successful nuclear program in 60's, it's sad that the hippies got into power and closed it. If you ever visit Stockholm, I do advise you to visit "war" museum on Riddars gatan (I'm not sure about spelling). I went there when I was on booze cruise between Helsinki and Stockholm and wasn't disappointed. Got to handle different weapons from AK4 to older infantry weapons that the Swedes have used. Saw some mysterious peaces used in their nuclear program etc...
    At some point in the cold war Denmark had atomics... stored in Germany just south of the border, prepared to ship up to be used in defensive artillery positions facing the Baltic Sea, should the polskies come sailin'. The reason not to keep them on danish soil back then is probably the same as why scandinavia shouldn't have any today, it would be a monstrously retarded escalation and a step in the totally wrong direction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dompedidomp View Post
    . This extra launcher, and any additional weapons are not mentioned in the defense budget, or anywhere else afaik. Perharps the launcher is a "gift" from the US, with some interesting inside
    From Raytheon, with love.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AfterEight View Post
    At some point in the cold war Denmark had atomics... stored in Germany just south of the border, prepared to ship up to be used in defensive artillery positions facing the Baltic Sea, should the polskies come sailin'.
    I have never heard about this before -- any sources?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AfterEight View Post
    At some point in the cold war Denmark had atomics... stored in Germany just south of the border, prepared to ship up to be used in defensive artillery positions facing the Baltic Sea, should the polskies come sailin'. The reason not to keep them on danish soil back then is probably the same as why scandinavia shouldn't have any today, it would be a monstrously retarded escalation and a step in the totally wrong direction.
    The Padishah Emperor nor the Landsraad will be pleased.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loke2 View Post
    I have never heard about this before -- any sources?
    It was a secretive policy and not officially confirmed, however the delivery and training of personel in the use of Honest John rockes (which from what I know was far too inaccurate for conventional loudouts) and NIKE Hercules missiles, both of which could be mounted with warheads combined with the US 59th Ordnance Brigade (duty was to deliver, maintain and supervise WMD's for allied nations) having a base in Flensburg (7km from the Danish border) gives a clear indication.

    http://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stevnsfortet Stevns fortress had NIKE Hercules missile on standby, and Flensburg was within 30 minutes flight. The fortress was build to face the Baltic Sea and defend against incoming soviet attack.

    http://arbejderen.dk/node/13713 article (in Danish) being a far left leaning newspaper I would take it with a grain of salt if it wasn't because they claim their source is Jyllands Posten. I haven't found the original article from Jyllands Posten, maybe not avaliable online but I'll look into that.

    Article about the possible procedure and delivery of warheads: http://www.chakoten.dk/honest_john_dk.html#efterskrift, check the quotes from veterans who manned the rockets. (in Danish)

    The only english article I could find on the subject by Historisktidsskrift about the "flexible" political attitude to nuclear weapons in Denmark in the 50'ies. http://www.historisktidsskrift.dk/summary/101_109.html

    And last but not least the stories of my old man who did 40 years in the danish navy, I can't quote anything specific from him but his knowledge of the danish cold war era and all our secret dealings and locations is extensive, not something every boy learns in school that is for sure.

    Edit: maybe wrong to say that Denmark had nukes, more like the US or NATO had them on standby.

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    You Don`t talk about Fight Club...

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