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Thread: Rick Santorum Represents Everything Europeans Find Weird About America.

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    kid got gumption BAF's Avatar
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    Default Rick Santorum Represents Everything Europeans Find Weird About America.

    Continental Europeans aren't yet glued to the U.S. presidential race the way they will be in the fall. They've plenty of their own issues to worry about right now. But even this early, poking out of what's otherwise a pile of standard wire reports, there's a theme in European media coverage: Rick Santorum is a bit odd. The Republican presidential candidate, to some, is apparently even a walking, talking incarnation of the gulf between American and European politics.

    Granted, the European media, like most free media, doesn't really speak with one voice. But when the press isn't letting American pundits, quoted in translation, interpret the Santorum phenomenon, you'll notice very few positive adjectives and more than a few verbal clues pointing to amusement, bewilderment, or distaste.

    The story continues here:
    http://www.theatlantic.com/internati...merica/253553/

    I thought this was a fitting article for this forum but is not intended to flame or start a flame war.

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    Senior Member joka's Avatar
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtOcrS6axnE

    Someone who would think this is a great idea is a bit weird.

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    Senior Member [WDW]Megaraptor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joka View Post
    Someone who would think this is a great idea is a bit weird.
    That's pretty normal compared to the weird adds Herman Cain was making, and http://petswithnewt.com/



    It's true that Christian fundamentalist candidates are uncommon across the Atlantic. Then again, a right-wing nationalist such as Germany's Thilo Sarrazin probably would not have been as successful in America. A politician in Germany's Social Democratic Party, Sarrazin was on the executive board of Germany's central bank when he started unleashing a string of provocative comments on Muslim immigrants, even writing a book declaring that Germany was destroying itself and that educated Germans should try to outbreed the uneducated immigrant masses. The point is: there are certainly extremists on both sides of the water. And though European commentators are free to call Santorum a "good man of yesterday," which politician you deem more anachronistic depends on your perspective.
    This. In the USA groups like BNP, FN, NPD, and people like Nick Griffin, Marine Le Pen and Jorg Haider are viewed as creepy and proto-fascists who remind people of Hitler and Mussolini in their early years. They would probably get less votes in the USA than Rick Santorum would get in Europe.
    Last edited by [WDW]Megaraptor; 02-25-2012 at 08:45 AM.

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    Senior Member Pandemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [WDW]Megaraptor View Post
    This. In the USA groups like BNP, FN, NPD, and people like Nick Griffin, Marine Le Pen and Jorg Haider are viewed as creepy and proto-fascists who remind people of Hitler and Mussolini in their early years. They would probably get less votes in the USA than Rick Santorum would get in Europe.
    Of course you have those groups too in the US, even more extreme then their European collegues, it's because of the European voting system they get more attention, also Santorum would score well with these groups here in Europe

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    Senior Member [WDW]Megaraptor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandemonium View Post
    Of course you have those groups too in the US, even more extreme then their European collegues, it's because of the European voting system they get more attention, also Santorum would score well with these groups here in Europe
    They may exist, but they are tiny and no one votes for them. They hardly ever even get enough support to qualify for ballot access. Certainly none of them ever come close to getting elected to Congress or hold seats on state legislatures like they do in European countries. And keep in mind that in the USA we have no laws curtailing their activities like European countries do.

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    Amiable Scoundrel Corrupt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [WDW]Megaraptor View Post
    They may exist, but they are tiny no one votes for them. They hardly ever even qualify for ballot access. Certainly none of them ever come close to getting elected to Congress or hold seats on state legislatures like they do in European countries. And keep in mind that in the USA we have no laws curtailing their activities like European countries do.
    Different voting systems. The more proportional system in Europe means minor parties can and do win seats. Look at the BNP in the UK. They never win any seats in national elections, which is a first past the post sytem, but they do get them in local and MEP elections because they use a proportional system.

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    Senior Member Telmar's Avatar
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    I had seen him on a Fox News interview, and he did not sound that bad. But it seems that he is from a blend in which religious values should shape lifestyle and laws in a very close way. Although not hate speech, in Europe we do view this as a limitation of personal liberty.

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    No Good Bloody Seppo California Joe's Avatar
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    Lots of Americans think he is odd too.

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    Senior Member [WDW]Megaraptor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corrupt View Post
    Different voting systems. The more proportional system in Europe means minor parties can and do win seats. Look at the BNP in the UK. They never win any seats in national elections, which is a first past the post sytem, but they do get them in local and MEP elections because they use a proportional system.
    Even with proportional systems, far-right parties still wouldn't win seats in the USA.

    The largest party that's anything like European far-right parties is the Constitution Party which holds no seats anywhere (not in congress or in state legislatures), only qualifies as a political party in 20 states, and got 0.15% of the vote in the 2008 presidential election. And not even the Constitution Party will touch the race issue and they have had black members in prominent positions.

    Parties that promote any sort of ethnic nationalism barely exist in the USA. The largest is the National Social Movement which has ~400 members in the entire country. American Third Position is another which has run candidates in only 2 or 3 minor elections and they got only a couple hundred votes each. Their best showing was the 2011 West Virginia governor's election where they got 0.4% of the vote.

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    Senior Member LineDoggie's Avatar
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    And Yet Europe loves Jimmy Carter as does the left and he was an Evangelical Born Again Christian, who talked about Nuclear Weapons deployment with his 12 year old daughter, beleived in UFO's, his sister spoke in tongues, and said she could convert Harvey Milk to hetero, Billy took money from Qaddafi/Khaddafi

    So we've already had a religious nutter in Office within living memory, but Santorum is the evil one. He dont like the eat da poo poo set so must be evil and stopped.

    realistically, he aint gonna be on the Ballot in November so the worry is unfounded.

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    Senior Member Telmar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LineDoggie View Post
    And Yet Europe loves Jimmy Carter as does the left and he was an Evangelical Born Again Christian, who talked about Nuclear Weapons deployment with his 12 year old daughter, beleived in UFO's, his sister spoke in tongues, and said she could convert Harvey Milk to hetero, Billy took money from Qaddafi/Khaddafi

    So we've already had a religious nutter in Office within living memory, but Santorum is the evil one. He dont like the eat da poo poo set so must be evil and stopped.

    realistically, he aint gonna be on the Ballot in November so the worry is unfounded.
    Linedoggie, it's not that fact that Europeans notice: many of us are Christians, religious. There is a blend of Americans that go very far in wanting the laws to stick close to the morality the Church represents, and are heavy legislators in that sense. We practice religion in a much more private manner, and are not very judgemental when it comes to evaluating other people's lifestyles.

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    Senior Member Silent Reader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [WDW]Megaraptor View Post
    Even with proportional systems, far-right parties still wouldn't win seats in the USA.
    They might not get anywhere in national elections - but with a proportional system they might get seats in state or local legislatures.
    Not necessarily because they ar well liked though.
    But in proportional systems there are for example protest votes when some people decide they want to "punish" the established parties by voting for an outsider party.

    In Germany we had this with the right wing DVU winning around 20% in state elections some years back, or more recently the let wing Pirate Party winning seats in the Berlin elections.

    Now the US of course has a bigger part of the population that is non-white - so a Nazi Party would probably have no chance just because of demographics - unless maybe in some pre-dominantly white regions.
    But there are other outsider parties that might get votes - just look at the Greens for example which probably seem like the reincarnation of the Sovjet communists for many conservative Americans (and some maybe even are)
    They certainly could win local or state seats as a fringe party (compared to the two big parties)

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    Quote Originally Posted by [WDW]Megaraptor View Post
    Even with proportional systems, far-right parties still wouldn't win seats in the USA.

    The largest party that's anything like European far-right parties is the Constitution Party which holds no seats anywhere (not in congress or in state legislatures), only qualifies as a political party in 20 states, and got 0.15% of the vote in the 2008 presidential election. And not even the Constitution Party will touch the race issue and they have had black members in prominent positions.

    Parties that promote any sort of ethnic nationalism barely exist in the USA. The largest is the National Social Movement which has ~400 members in the entire country. American Third Position is another which has run candidates in only 2 or 3 minor elections and they got only a couple hundred votes each. Their best showing was the 2011 West Virginia governor's election where they got 0.4% of the vote.
    I don't know if you realise this but the BNP really don't have much support in the UK whatever way you look at it. Just over 4000 members. No MPs (about 2% of the vote). No MSPs (they didn't even get 1% of the vote in 2011). No members of the Welsh Assembly. No members of the legislature in Northern Ireland. 2 MEPs and a handful of local government seats is all the have.

    If you look at their social policies, there are some parallels with the Republican party (or perhaps the fringes of it). They oppose abortion, oppose **********ity and don't like immigration. Their fiscal policy isn't really aligned with that of the Republican party but some of their policies that are on the fringe as it were in the UK are pushed by fairly mainstream candidates in the US. I'm not sure these fringe far right parties you mention in the US are a completely accurate comparison for that reason.

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    Senior Member tercio67's Avatar
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    You'll have to admit that things are getting a little weird when a talkshow host (Maddow/MSNBC) apologises for what Santorum is ventilating.


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    Senior Member LineDoggie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tercio67 View Post
    You'll have to admit that things are getting a little weird when a talkshow host (Maddow/MSNBC) apologises for what Santorum is ventilating.

    Not really she would do that anyway to curry favor. If Obama made those same statements she would defend it.

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