please don't follow the likes of powerfugly and post that crap here...
Upper 3 are the Chonma-Ho, the lower 3 are the Pokpung-Ho however.Originally Posted by Jim Warford
For further clarification regarding the Ch'onma-Ho...here is the Ch'onma-Ho tank series as of Oct 2010:
Shot at 2012-04-16
Chonma-Ho are modernized T-62's, Pokpung-Ho is a hodgepodge of the T-62, T-80, T-72, and perhaps components from the T-90. Though it still likely pales in comparison to T-90's or even the most modern models of T-72's out there.
As it turns out, the only surefire way to tell a Pokpung-Ho apart from a late model upgraded Chonma-Ho is the number of roadwheels; six in the former and five in the latter.
Not so I'm afraid...the P'okpoong-Ho is the North Korean T-72-level tank (driver in the center of the hull, 125mm main gun, etc). IMO, the North Korean press reports and published photos of the "new" tank during field trials in 2010 (the 4th tank from the top in my posted image here - before the Oct parade), identified as the P'okpoong-Ho were actually disinformation. We didn't see the real P'okpoong-Ho until the Oct 2010 parade. The presence of a 125mm-armed T-72-level tank in North Korea has been reported by both South Korean and US official sources for many years and these two upgraded Ch'onma-Ho tanks (seen both during the field trials and during the Oct 2010 parade), have 115mm guns. As far as the real P'okpoong-Ho is concerned, we now have two different variants to sort out: the "P'okpoong-Ho I" (seen in the Oct 2010 parade), and the "P'okpoong-Ho II," (seen in last weekend's parade - my designations).
Jim, I have noticed that some Pokpung-Ho batches have the driver seated front left, like the Chonma-Ho. Look at the row of late model tanks in this picture. #216 and #138 appear to be Chonma-Ho (upgraded). All the rest (#404, #909 and #915) seem to be Pokpung-Ho models. Of these only #915 appears to have the driver in the center of the hull. Looking closely at the pictures, I'd add engine decks, fuel pannier configuration and front fenders in the list of distinguishing features between the two types. Also, #915 is the only one with a thermal sleeve fitted to the main gun.
Dark Avenger; the only P'okpoong in that row at the exhibition hall is #915. The P'okpoong is actually very different from the Ch'onma-Ho upgraded tanks shown both before and during the Oct 2010 parade. At least one upgraded Ch'onma-Ho variant (the one with the removable glacis add-on armor and six roadwheels per side), was also in last weekend's parade.
Okay, thats too much confusion here. Question can we call six wheeled(and driver in the left side) Chonma-Ho's like Pokpung-ho?
I think - NO, but we can speculate, that those six wheeled Chonma-Ho's probable have 125mm gun.
While that once highly secret, even more secretive than russian object195(t-95), M-2002 Pokpung-Ho has: 6 road wheels, driver is sitting in center and big round turret front is most definitely armed with 125mm gun. And as Jim Warford said above, first variant of it we saw on 2010y "Best Koreas" parade, while the second variant with ERA on the turret - surfaced recently.
Whats with the parades in N.Korea? Did fuel embargo end? or whole country and army is saving fuel only for the parades?
Okay with the tanks but, do N.Korea have some SAM protection for it's armour? On parade I saw SAMs: Sa-13, S-200, S-125 mobile variant and aka S-300 on maz truck. Thats all? DO they have something like Gecko's or atleast SA-6? if not(and even if yes) - they are doomed
More photos of the parade and Arms Exhibit visit. Notice the SA-13s and mobile SA-3 launchers. Interesting... Also, I bet the Kevlar helmets they are wearing are imported from the PRC.
It does make interesting viewing, least they have started to get "new" stuff such as helmets and "modern" - ish - armored vehicles
Unfortunately, given the secrecy surrounding NK projects, there is no way to say definitively who is right. Either one of us could be right, or we could both be wrong. If only we could see the data plates in front of every vehicle... However, I will still call everything with 5 roadwheels Chonma-Ho and with 6 Pokpung-Ho, for convenience. I suppose the latest upgraded Chonma-Ho could be called Chonma-Ho VI. The others could be called anything in the Pokpung-Ho I-II (or Ia)-III range. Remember, the Pokpung-Ho has been in the works for quite a while (originally designated M-2002 and possibly existing even earlier). Its evolutionary process could be analogous to, say, for example, the M4A3, which began with a 75mm gun and ended up with a 76mm piece. Just my 2 cents.
aren't you curious about what Chonma-Ho and Pokpung-Ho means in English?
Chonma is Pegasus and Pokpung is Storm in English. 'Ho' is a noun suffix tells you it is name of something FYI
Last edited by nooobs; 04-18-2012 at 07:09 AM.
What are you looking at, huh?
North Korea(Chosun) is best Korea!
Apart the S-300 (that's quiet a good improvement, differently from the Iraqui and Serbian air defense during their wars) they should have the SA-6, and they should have built a NK version or a copy for the SA-17 Gadfly... ( 500 missiles in 2006)Okay with the tanks but, do N.Korea have some SAM protection for it's armour? On parade I saw SAMs: Sa-13, S-200, S-125 mobile variant and aka S-300 on maz truck. Thats all? DO they have something like Gecko's or atleast SA-6? if not(and even if yes) - they are doomed
More pictures from the recent parade.
Wheeled 8x8 APC (edit: this one is actually from another parade)
170mm self-propelled gun M1989
Re-supply vehicle PR-14AM for S-125 (SA-3 Goa)
BM25 Musudan IRBM
BMD-20 200mm MRL
Last edited by calimero2; 04-20-2012 at 04:45 AM.
I believe it is possible to reach logical conclusion based on information we already have. Here are the facts:
-There are 5 NK-made tanks on the museum photograph. I will call them Tank 216, Tank 138, Tank 404, Tank 909 and Tank 915 for convenience, starting from bottom left;
-Tanks 216 and 138 have 5 wheels, the rest have 6;
-We have previously seen 4 of them during parades, Tank 404 is the only exception;
-Tank 216 has been known to us for at least 10 years, often identified as Chonma III, IV or V;
-Tanks 216 and 138 are basically T-62 with welded turrets;
-Tanks 216 through 909 have the same welded turret with different types of applique armor. Tank 915 has original turret;
-Tanks 404 and 909 have at least frontal section of the hull borrowed from T-62;
-Tank 915 has original hull, most resembling Chinese Type 90 (T-72 derivative);
-Tanks 909 and 915 have T-72 engines;
-Through intermediate sources we know there are 6 (or at least 5) versions of Chonma (T-62 derivative) and at least one version of Pokpoong (T-72 derivative) in existence;
Since 915 has virtually nothing in common with the rest of the lineup, there could be only two possible conclusions made from the evidence:
1) 216 and 138 are Chonma IV and V, 404 and 909 are Pokpoong I and II, and 915 is some unknown tank;
2) 216 through 909 are Chonma (with 404 and 909 being either V prototype and V, or V and VI) and 915 is Pokpoong.
Based on the principle of occam's razor I conclude 915 is Pokpoong.
I suppose one could call all of the 6-wheeled tanks "Pokpoong" for convinience, if by convinience you mean ensuring better understanding of your words by the majority which is unable to tell T-62 from T-72, but I refuse to do this.
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