Don't forget that "crazy" Hitler was Times, Man of The Year 1938. Hi policies and Government initially were very good...he did become a twisted bastard fairly quickly though. Most narcissistic people do.
Originally Posted by Toddy1
lol....you defend Hitler and his Government policies. Yes, if only Hitler had access to some modern medicine....****** bleeding, and all the possible side effects would surly been a small sacrific for him to pay....for the world as a whole and all of mankind.
Maybe try doing some research into the early days of his Government, before it became the psychotic regime that it did.
No need for me to do that, I take your word for it. I don't doubt Hitler was a person too, with good and bad deeds/actions. The positive deeds you mention were fleeting and miniscule when compared to the impact of his later deeds/actions. It's folly to me...If you want to espouse all the virtues of Hitler, go ahead, I won't deny them, but I'm not interested........He stirred the bees nest of the world, for personal gains. I'm gonna have to 'break your line' now, and say you are right to see things from your perspective....but I kinda feel like you are trolling me now. Thank you.
Not at all mate. My relatives fought and died for the British Army against Hitler, so I am in no way a fan. So I'll end it there as well.
I really never thought you were a 'fan' (to be clear).....
If not them than whom? The Germany was nazy state for more than 10 years. Everything not nazy was simply purged. It had disappeared. There was in all practical senses nothing not nazy in Germany 1945. Even russians who had extensive pool of "german" communists to plant into Eastern Germany had employed quite a few Todt officials many of which were nazy members. One has to be extremely stupid or Rumsfeld to deny experience and know hows of the local administration personal.
I have a remark for the morally charged idiots who write such articles, and for the retards who quote this kind of sh&t here. Better illustrate how these "criminals" kept "murderous dictatorship" practices in modern Germany. Otherwise you do a carped blaming. It's nothing less than a call for corporate punishment btw, smth that exactly nazis were punished for.
Might be news to the those new kids on the block, (kids born in the late 1990's) but this was well known about back in the 60's, even immediate post war the Allies realised it would be difficult, if not downright impossible to run Germany without employing former "nazis" in everything from the Civil service, Judicial offices, police, fire-brigade, military, health etc.. etc..
Connaught Ranger.
a Nazi called John Rabe, he and with others established the international safety zone saved at least 200000 people in Nanjing in 1937, from his personal diary, he did not support Nazi, but for his job he had to become a Nazi. in fact, many Nazi members are good men, they were forced or unwillingly, or been deceived became a member.
another, some Japanese war criminals, for example, staffs in the unit 731 were used by the US government secretly after WWII and not charged their crime. is this an example to prove that US do the same thing like Germany?
Last edited by braveheartnju; 03-09-2012 at 03:52 AM.
People are characterized by their intentions, their words, their actions and their consequences. They aren't good or bad.
Pull an Alexander the Great with a XXIst century mindset and you won't last a week. However today the man is hailed as a "great conqueror" and what not. Swap the victims and Hitler would have been "Europe's savior" in current history books. Had he just "taken care" of the "Communists" who knows.
On a side note regarding the OP; every year another study, piece, book, movie, documentary is made on the Nazis being protected. Same trend with the Gulag. Same trend with Ernesto G., The Soviet mass rapes.
Yes they were, some had the skills needed at those times (hell Former Nazi "fellow travellers" were recruited by the USSR after WW2) and had a "get out of the firing squad spot" card or "back to the right team again" card. Odessa, Hudal's network, Vatican's network you call it.
It's old, It's gone. The current German institutions are by far the least "polluted' by former ideologues and extremists when compared to Eastern Europe or even Western Europe.
Can't these folks have peace? They've done their mea culpa for not one but two genocides...
Reference to Japan, is way out of context with regards this topic, which is "The Role Ex-Nazis Played in Early West Germany."
I'm not exactly sure what the news is.
Since the NSDAP was a mass organisation and not a cadre party like a communist one, it was inevitable that NSDAP members would serve in high post war posts.
Also while the federal republic of Germany was founded in 1949, its institutions are older. Courts, administration and civil services were simply taken over and certain political institutions consider themselves to be identical with their prewar predecessors. Most famously the german foreign office considers itself to be the same foreign office that served Germany since 1871 and so official lines of ambassadors date back to the Prussian envoys of the 18th century.
And even Globke and Oberländer were relatively minor functionaries in WW2. Both were nazis for sure, Globke being the worse of the two as one of the drafters and commentators of the Nuremberg race laws. Oberländer was maybe a accessory to the early holocaust as he raised ukrainian volunteer battalions that comitted many of the attrocities in the Ukraine in Summer 1941.
Globke was simply Adenauers man for the dirty political jobs and Adenauer knew very well what sort of man he was.
Oberländer was a stooge Adenauer put in government to satisfy the east Prussians and other displaced germans desire for their issue to be taken seriously.
For the rest of the bunch, one must say while no Nazi was hanged and most prison sentences were woefully short, no serious criminal involved with the Holocaust or other crimes against humanity served in much more than communal level and even that usually was short.
There were a lot of nazis but all top functions were usually reserved for people with impeccable reputation who usually kept the nazis in line. A lot of careers ended prematurely over expressed sympathies for Eichmann or public longing for the old day. And the press did its work as well, after a criminal figure was discovered, his career was usually ended by public outcry, as it happened with most doctors involved with euthanasia or human experimentation.
After somebody found out what they did, they lost their jobs or were quietly shunted aside.
And those minor functionaries that did serve maybe atoned for what they did by building a better Germany?
West Germany in the 50s and 60s was successful not because it was morally superior but because it provided wealth and security for its citizens. It worked, while the GDR, many of whose early officials boosted impeccable antifascist creditials, did not.
Also, the only untainted pool of talented german language administrators, civil servants and jurists on the planet was the german jews, most of whom were busy building up the state of Israel, to which the 50s West Germany contributed substantially due to the Luxemburg Treaty payments and later military donations.
Also, it is an inconvenient truth that the secret of west German success was simply that the Federal Republic, with a jump start thanks to the Marshal Plan took over the social and industrial programs of the third Reich and employed them for peaceful development instead of arms buildup. Hitler did not invent most of these measures and he did not even enact all of them, some were in place in the Weimar Republic but he claimed them. This enabled these programs to create a budget surplus and pay for themselves instead. So the "Nazis" in administration simply did what they could best, work in a framework they knew for two decades and that worked.
We obviously didn't turn nazi and that is as much to the credit of those officials who gave Germany the administrative framework that allowed a democratic culture to take root, in which the vaunted 68ers could exist.
Much as US civil rights owe more to Lyndon B. Johnson and his legislative work than to hippies, german society owes more to those quiet workers than to Rudi Dutschke.
Seriously this whole "Nazis in the 50s" thing has been cooked up as political ammunition of parts of the left against the right.
A certain stream on the political left simply wants to destroy tradition. They almost totally succeeded with anything before 1945, and now the early federal republic has to be tainted as well until we're left with nothing but their slanted view of history and their own importance.
Last edited by JCR; 03-09-2012 at 05:44 AM.
They knew how to make the trains runs on time...My family was from the Hartz Mountains area and involved in the V2 program and later part of the Paperclip deal.....and some were members of the Nazi party, not because they wanted to but because they had to. It was like being in the Soviet Union from 1922-1989, unless you wanted to be a janitor then you had to be a party member.
Maybe, you might want to become a bit more literate in English before making sweeping statements that people posting here are morally charged retards who carped blame......
Man of the Year is a reflection of an individual's influence or impactfulness. Not "goodness".
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