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Thread: Russia, Arab League Agree Plan on Syria.

  1. #16
    Member memoli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamming_Python View Post
    in the Middle East; and out of all of those probably the one who has built the closest thing to a liberal and secular Arab society.
    what about Morocco and Algerie?

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    Senior Member Flamming_Python's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by memoli View Post
    what about Morocco and Algerie?
    Sure them too I guess; but it's North Africa not the Middle East as such; and they are much closer to Europe and liberal influence. I'm talking about the core states from the Sinai to Eastern borders of Iran.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kevlar308 View Post
    I suppose that means that Assad's thugs quit killing and the civilians should quit dying?
    One good way for this to end: Assad swinging at the end of a rope like his bastard bathist friend Saddam.
    Stop being so immature and viewing this as a black and white issue. This isn't a "plucky rebels versus evil Empire" story. This is a civil war, the rebels have on many occasions ambushed and killed many Syrian soldiers. There was even some pretty gruesome videos of this of a Syrian army squad being ambushed and killed. And stop being so gullible believing everything you hear coming out of Syria from the Western media. The rebels are basically relaying their point of view to the "independent" journalists, trying to portray the situation as favourably as possible in order to get the rest of the world to intervene and put them into power essentially. Same **** happened in Iraq. All of those dissidents claiming various BS stories about Saddams WMDs, making sh|t up because they wanted him gone. Or the BS stories about babies in clinics being thrown out of windows in the first war (how the hell did anybody believe that sh|t).

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    Quote Originally Posted by medo View Post
    Don't forget, that unser Russian preassure, Assad change Sirian constitution and it was confirmed with referendum, which give multiparty system. Syria now have option to change Assad's regime peacefully on elections, because with new constitution oposition parties are alowed and could be elected to form new government and to have elected new president of Syria. I think it is the best way for Syrians to solve their own problem without foreingners.
    .......... of course, Vlad & Dimitri can teach the Syrians a veritable sh1tload about democracy....no, wait

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    Quote Originally Posted by fireinthehole View Post
    .......... of course, Vlad & Dimitri can teach the Syrians a veritable sh1tload about democracy....no, wait
    We should instead get Saudi Arabia, the UAE, and all of the other Arab countries criticising Assad to do it instead...

  6. #21
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    >Baath Party
    >liberal and secular Arab society.

    Whatever you say bro

  7. #22
    Senior Member Flamming_Python's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by void View Post
    Stop being so immature and viewing this as a black and white issue. This isn't a "plucky rebels versus evil Empire" story. This is a civil war, the rebels have on many occasions ambushed and killed many Syrian soldiers. There was even some pretty gruesome videos of this of a Syrian army squad being ambushed and killed. And stop being so gullible believing everything you hear coming out of Syria from the Western media. The rebels are basically relaying their point of view to the "independent" journalists, trying to portray the situation as favourably as possible in order to get the rest of the world to intervene and put them into power essentially. Same **** happened in Iraq. All of those dissidents claiming various BS stories about Saddams WMDs, making sh|t up because they wanted him gone. Or the BS stories about babies in clinics being thrown out of windows in the first war (how the hell did anybody believe that sh|t).
    Nicely put void; I swear everytime I hear one of these "Assad's soldiers roasting babies over BBQ" allegations I just roll my eyes. How can people buy this stuff? I don't doubt that there are atrocities and bloodshed but this is war, a serious one and what comes with it is not good vs. evil but propaganda, demonisation, inflation or manipulation of figures to whatever suits the agenda whether low casualty figures or massive civilian casualties at the hands of the enemy. This is a pattern we seen everywhere from Yugoslavia to Hezbollah vs. Israel to the Georgian war in 2008. An information war is right now being waged against Syria and the whole information space of Western printed, online and TV media is devoted exclusively to 1-sided information. An anti-war, or anti-interventionist, or even any attempt at just a balanced viewpoint is scarcely to be found; certainly not among any of the main channels. It's just hacks repeating the same things and lines again and again.

  8. #23
    Senior Member Flamming_Python's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IconOfEvi View Post
    >Baath Party
    Baath Party has its roots as a secular nationalist movement, not a religious one.

    >liberal and secular Arab society.

    Whatever you say bro
    Just look at all the TV reports, especially in Damascus and among Assad's supporters; young women and teenage girls with makeup, no headscarves to be found, etc... cleanly shaved men, etc... It doesn't look all that much different from Israel; and this is the sort of society that is more compatible with Western and Russian cultures than anything you're going to see in the Gulf. But as with Iran in 1979, Afghanistan by the 90s, etc... if you destabilise it or launch it into war then this will all dissappear and be replaced with fanatics and people with poor education.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamming_Python View Post
    ...if you destabilise it or launch it into war then this will all dissappear and be replaced with fanatics and people with poor education...
    our NATO colleagues are perfectly aware, don't you think? it occurs to me that it is their intention in the first place. all the infowars and witchhunt for Syrian government is just a reason to pull a blanket onto themselves. seems that wars are becoming a great business for certain peoples.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stasi View Post
    our NATO colleagues are perfectly aware, don't you think? it occurs to me that it is their intention in the first place. all the infowars and witchhunt for Syrian government is just a reason to pull a blanket onto themselves. seems that wars are becoming a great business for certain peoples.
    Why off course, that "benevolent" leader massacring the people there had nothing to do with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sootan View Post
    Why off course, that "benevolent" leader massacring the people there had nothing to do with it.
    Its called a civil war. You step in and help the rebels, and then it will be the rebels massacring the people they disagree with. Or do you actually believe that if you help the rebels they will set up a liberal democratic secular government and ally with the West and live happily ever after?

  12. #27
    Senior Member Flamming_Python's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sootan View Post
    Why off course, that "benevolent" leader massacring the people there had nothing to do with it.
    Yeah the reaction was pretty hardcore but no more so than the crushing of other protest movements across the Middle East. Or by Uzbekistan in 2005. Actually there are a huge number of examples. By some reports there were snipers among the protestors taking shots, who then retreated in time when the Syrian army came and made the protestors pay as a result. In Northern Ireland there was also a case I think, when British paratroppers fired on protestors and killed a whole lot of them in the 70s. Bottom line is that it's still nowhere near that simple.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamming_Python View Post
    Yeah the reaction was pretty hardcore but no more so than the crushing of other protest movements across the Middle East. .
    Doesn't seem to be working anymore doesn't it ? Allowing Assad to play for time while he tries to get on top of the rebellions isn't going to work.

    Wholesale culling of protestors isn't working like the good old' days and only brings more instability and other armed groups exploiting power vacuums.

    Booting out the autocrats wont solve anything nor trying to augment their hold on power.

    The problem of Inflation, poverty, corruption, autocrats & general hopelessness in the middle east coming home to roost.

  14. #29
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    So what will be Russia's reaction when Assad's artillery keeps shelling cities?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamming_Python View Post
    Just look at all the TV reports, especially in Damascus and among Assad's supporters; young women and teenage girls with makeup, no headscarves to be found, etc... cleanly shaved men, etc... It doesn't look all that much different from Israel; and this is the sort of society that is more compatible with Western and Russian cultures than anything you're going to see in the Gulf.
    Funny how lipstick and shaven faces is seen as a more important cultural bond than such unimportant stuff like shelling cities...

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