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Thread: Russia, Arab League Agree Plan on Syria.

  1. #31
    Senior Member Atlantic Friend's Avatar
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    When Assad's adversaries kill people, it's terrorism. When Assad shell cities, it's "sad but there's no alternative really". Got that. Must be useful in conversations.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kilgor View Post
    Doesn't seem to be working anymore doesn't it ? Allowing Assad to play for time while he tries to get on top of the rebellions isn't going to work.

    Wholesale culling of protestors isn't working like the good old' days and only brings more instability and other armed groups exploiting power vacuums.

    Booting out the autocrats wont solve anything nor trying to augment their hold on power.

    The problem of Inflation, poverty, corruption, autocrats & general hopelessness in the middle east coming home to roost.
    Oh it is? Really? Since when? When Hariri was whacked many pointed out that it would have a backlash primarily at the Syrian economy since most Syrian "guest" workers would get the boot and they did. However when people in the Palestinian camps go all ape**** and are suppressed by the Lebanese military every one seems to cheer. Now what was the difference between then and now? Same helplessness, same autocracy and partisan politics, same level of corruption?

    While I expressed you exact same point more than a year ago while every one was huuuurling at the "HURRRRUB SPRUUUNG", what is happening in Syria is simply a fruit of opportunity for various Western Chancellaries to get rid of a wrinkle (like it happened with GaGa). The very evident failure of the "Arab" social fabric is clearly seen here as the middle class is the one suffering just like it was during the Iranian Revolutionnary years. The poor will get back at their lack of hope and immigration very fast. The big players will get their way and their sponsors will have new "maps". SOP.

    Now Russian reaction at Assads shelling cities? "Please have patience, work in Progress".

  3. #33
    Member memoli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamming_Python View Post
    Western printed, online and TV media is devoted exclusively to 1-sided information.
    we have seen how nice assad is against journalists. they have to be sneaked into the country to cover what is happening inside there. only pro assad sana news agency is there to provide some "expertise, truth about the terrorist al qaida ruled FSA" on Syria.

    why i can't find any western news paper being welcomed to Syria by the government to cover what is happening there?

    they even kill journalists, what do you expect them to do. say yes to assads brutality and side with him?

  4. #34

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    Assad have to go, that's the one step that would make a difference.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Stasi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hattusili View Post
    Assad have to go, that's the one step that would make a difference.
    what do you think the difference will be?

  6. #36
    Has mall ninja experience Sashko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atlantic Friend View Post
    When Assad's adversaries kill people, it's terrorism. When Assad shell cities, it's "sad but there's no alternative really". Got that. Must be useful in conversations.
    I like how Sunni extremists go from being labelled either as terrorists or partners or simply adversaries, depending on geographic region and interests involved. Scary terrorists in Pakistan/Afghanistan, trustworthy key partners in Saudi Arabia/UAE/Jordan and freedom-loving underdog adversaries in Syria.

  7. #37
    Falcons FTW Kilgor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoTeMoRe View Post
    Oh it is? Really? Since when? When Hariri was whacked many pointed out that it would have a backlash primarily at the Syrian economy since most Syrian "guest" workers would get the boot and they did. However when people in the Palestinian camps go all ape**** and are suppressed by the Lebanese military every one seems to cheer. Now what was the difference between then and now? Same helplessness, same autocracy and partisan politics, same level of corruption
    The difference is momentum, the rise of social media, and food prices.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...-east-protests

    I don't know about you, but i'd say there is a pretty good correlation here.


    The days of locking up photocopiers and the only source of information being Pravda are over too. Autocratic governments can't control information flows like the good old' days.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by memoli View Post
    we have seen how nice assad is against journalists. they have to be sneaked into the country to cover what is happening inside there. only pro assad sana news agency is there to provide some "expertise, truth about the terrorist al qaida ruled FSA" on Syria.

    why i can't find any western news paper being welcomed to Syria by the government to cover what is happening there?

    they even kill journalists, what do you expect them to do. say yes to assads brutality and side with him?
    You do know that some of the journalists were giving the rebels access to their satellite phones and other such things. When you do that, you become a fair target.

  9. #39
    Falcons FTW Kilgor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by void View Post

    Shelling cities is bad, but the alternative is what? Letting a very well financed and supported from abroad Islamist insurgency spread across the country?
    Yes, what is the alternative ?

    Cutting down and suppressing the self determination of your population forever ?

    Why not just pack them in cattle cars to labor camps because "sad but no alternative really".

    IMO there is no easy peace in this conflict either way. Perpetual trouble like Egypt.

  10. #40
    Falcons FTW Kilgor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by void View Post
    You do know that some of the journalists were giving the rebels access to their satellite phones and other such things. When you do that, you become a fair target.
    Quote Originally Posted by void View Post
    . This is a civil war, the rebels have on many occasions ambushed and killed many Syrian soldiers. There was even some pretty gruesome videos of this of a Syrian army squad being ambushed and killed..
    Does your "fair target" rule apply for your second statement ?

  11. #41
    Senior Member kalerab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by void View Post
    You do know that some of the journalists were giving the rebels access to their satellite phones and other such things. When you do that, you become a fair target.
    You are quoting Syrian government officials right now. Not very trustable source.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by void View Post
    You do know that some of the journalists were giving the rebels access to their satellite phones and other such things. When you do that, you become a fair target.
    i am trying to point out that you can't expect journalists to be pro assad when the Syrian regime isn't allowing them access to Syria to see what is happening there.

    and on top of that they hear that professional journalists are being murdered by assad regime they won't go around and support him. you keep insisting that the media is to one sided, why doesn't assad just let the journalists have free access to the country to report what is happening on both sides?

    is he to afraid to show what his army is doing against the civilian population and those who don't like him.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kilgor View Post
    Does your "fair target" rule apply for your second statement ?
    Yes it does. Obviously the rebels are going to attack the Syrian army, they are rebels its what they do. But the point is, people should realise that this is exactly what they are. Not peaceful koombaya protesters bearing flowers and chocolate. The Western media sure does try to portray they as such however.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by memoli View Post
    i am trying to point out that you can't expect journalists to be pro assad when the Syrian regime isn't allowing them access to Syria to see what is happening there.

    and on top of that they hear that professional journalists are being murdered by assad regime they won't go around and support him. you keep insisting that the media is to one sided, why doesn't assad just let the journalists have free access to the country to report what is happening on both sides?

    is he to afraid to show what his army is doing against the civilian population and those who don't like him.
    What? I found really amusing that a man sporting the Turkish flag as avatar doesn't know about martial law.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kilgor View Post
    Yes, what is the alternative ?

    Cutting down and suppressing the self determination of your population forever ?

    Why not just pack them in cattle cars to labor camps because "sad but no alternative really".

    IMO there is no easy peace in this conflict either way. Perpetual trouble like Egypt.
    That is one view that you should try applying to many other conflicts around the world and see how it works. Should the Chechens in 1999 who were kidnapping and killing people left right and centre and bombing apartment buildings been allowed to self determine and left in "peace"? The Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka too? The government should have done nothing and let them go on their way? What about the Taleban? The Afghan government should let them go on their merry way and do their own thing? The American Civil war? The North should have just let the South secede, let them self determine and all that right? I could go on forever.

    Assad is 100% correct in trying to suppress this insurgency. His error is in how he is doing it, with no regard for civilians. However, this is because he wants to finish the insurgency ASAP because it is a VERY well financed and supported insurgency. If it wasnt financed by the other Arab states and supported from abroad, maybe he wouldnt need to carry out such massive artillert bombardments. But currently, he knows that if he doesnt end it quickly, it will be his end.

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