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Thread: Toulouse Suspects Cornered

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    Israeli experts criticise French handling of siege


    AFP - Israeli security experts on Friday heaped scathing criticism on the French police's handling of a 32-hour siege involving a gunman who killed seven people, three of them Jewish children.

    http://www.france24.com/en/20120323-...handling-siege

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    Senior Member Telmar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MUSHROOM123 View Post
    Israeli experts criticise French handling of siege


    AFP - Israeli security experts on Friday heaped scathing criticism on the French police's handling of a 32-hour siege involving a gunman who killed seven people, three of them Jewish children.

    http://www.france24.com/en/20120323-...handling-siege
    Lots of words for guys who were not briefed about the specific operation and the conditions. I hope they will accept criticism in return if some French RAID or GIGN terrorist expert finds something he does´nt like in the way Israel combats its terrorists.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Telmar View Post
    Lots of words for guys who were not briefed about the specific operation and the conditions. I hope they will accept criticism in return if some French RAID or GIGN terrorist expert finds something he does´nt like in the way Israel combats its terrorists.
    They won't
    But if i were them, i won't pipe like that. It is not as if they didn't had their share of failed operations (like anybody around the world) if we can say that the Toulouse operation is really a failed one

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mordoror View Post
    They won't
    But if i were them, i won't pipe like that. It is not as if they didn't had their share of failed operations (like anybody around the world) if we can say that the Toulouse operation is really a failed one
    I think there are different approaches and tactics to the same situation. But actually situations aren't comparably due to politics. So, the Israeli "experts" should shut up

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mordoror View Post
    They won't
    But if i were them, i won't pipe like that. It is not as if they didn't had their share of failed operations (like anybody around the world) if we can say that the Toulouse operation is really a failed one
    They had, but there is a cultural gap when it comes to critics.
    Israelis are tough in criticizing themselves. In France we are reluctant to such debates being held publicly.

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    I think there are different approaches and tactics to the same situation.
    That's granted. In fact among our CT unit we already have different approaches and tactics. Between the GIGN, the Raid, the 1st RPMIA, the cultures and know how are different (even if those units train regularly together). This is even more true when you compare countries to countries. Except the equipment and basics i don't think that the operational culture share so much commonalities between the SAS CT squadron, the US SWAT, SRT, SOG or HRT, the german GSG9 or SEK or the Israeli Sayerets (don't even know which one is intended to operate in similar cases).
    And you are right, political situation is (unfortunately) a big operational factor here. And often a factor of screwing up

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    His former psychologist gives us his pinion on Mohammed Merah, from an "anxious, narcissistic and fragile boy" he became a "cold blooded predator unaffected by what he is doing".

    Apparently Mohammed Merah should have received treatments and psychologic care and such...

    http://www.franceinfo.fr/faits-diver...821-2012-03-24

    And the weapon used in Toulouse and Montauban has been retrieved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mordoror View Post
    That's granted. In fact among our CT unit we already have different approaches and tactics. Between the GIGN, the Raid, the 1st RPMIA, the cultures and know how are different (even if those units train regularly together). This is even more true when you compare countries to countries. Except the equipment and basics i don't think that the operational culture share so much commonalities between the SAS CT squadron, the US SWAT, SRT, SOG or HRT, the german GSG9 or SEK or the Israeli Sayerets (don't even know which one is intended to operate in similar cases).
    And you are right, political situation is (unfortunately) a big operational factor here. And often a factor of screwing up
    In this particular case, it would be Yamam (anti-terrorist police unit/SWAT).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mordoror View Post
    And you are right, political situation is (unfortunately) a big operational factor here. And often a factor of screwing up
    Especially here.

    RAID is backed by Sarkozy, and those who don't like him will inevitably judge his actions and those executing them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan le Fou View Post
    Especially here.

    RAID is backed by Sarkozy, and those who don't like him will inevitably judge his actions and those executing them.
    That's a point
    But Camera has said it also few posts above. Culture of criticism is not something very developed in our country, because especially of the bipartisan polarization of the political chess. See, if i dare to criticize the operation (me or those who know better in fact like former SF team leaders) we would be labelled anti-Sarkozy. If i praise the operation (even if there are some areas which obvously "laissent à desirer" ) i would be labelled as pro-Sarkozy

    I think that lessons should be understood from the event (in all areas, Raid SOPs, DCRI functions and manpower, function of the PMs like Guéant, function of the journalists, function and role of the society/local mosquees and imams/influence of internet jihadi sites ..... and so on and so on) without the scope of bipartisanism
    But it's a "voeu pieu" from my side

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    Quote Originally Posted by IDF_TANKER View Post
    In this particular case, it would be Yamam (anti-terrorist police unit/SWAT).
    Thxs IDF Tanker

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mordoror View Post
    That's a point
    But Camera has said it also few posts above. Culture of criticism is not something very developed in our country, because especially of the bipartisan polarization of the political chess. See, if i dare to criticize the operation (me or those who know better in fact like former SF team leaders) we would be labelled anti-Sarkozy. If i praise the operation (even if there are some areas which obvously "laissent à desirer" ) i would be labelled as pro-Sarkozy

    I think that lessons should be understood from the event (in all areas, Raid SOPs, DCRI functions and manpower, function of the PMs like Guéant, function of the journalists, function and role of the society/local mosquees and imams/influence of internet jihadi sites ..... and so on and so on) without the scope of bipartisanism
    But it's a "voeu pieu" from my side
    X2

    In my opinion too, it's a pity that a constructive debate can not be held on any of these areas without being politically exploited. It's sure that the elections context is not helpful for that, but even in ordinary times critics are too often serving an agenda and not really intended or not really perceived to be constructive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Camera View Post
    X2

    In my opinion too, it's a pity that a constructive debate can not be held on any of these areas without being politically exploited. It's sure that the elections context is not helpful for that, but even in ordinary times critics are too often serving an agenda and not really intended or not really perceived to be constructive.

    2X to Mordoror's post

    and 2X to yours. A friend one said, politics is part of the human behavior. How to remove that aspect, is a solution that may be impossible to find. So we will always be stuck with this dilemma. Some how rational behavior and people just does not seem to mix.

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    Police quiz Merah's 'proud' brother

    [*******#333333][FONT=Arial]Anti-terrorist police in Paris are questioning a brother of Islamist gunman Mohamed Merah to determine if he played any part in deadly attacks.[/FONT][/COLOR]
    [*******#333333][FONT=Arial]Abdelkader Merah was flown to Paris from Toulouse along with his partner and taken to the headquarters of the domestic intelligence agency (DCRI).[/FONT][/COLOR]
    [*******#333333][FONT=Arial]Mohamed Merah admitted killing seven people in execution-style gun attacks before dying in a police siege.[/FONT][/COLOR]
    [*******#333333][FONT=Arial]Abdelkader reportedly told police after the attacks he was "proud" of him.[/FONT][/COLOR]
    [*******#333333][FONT=Arial]His mother was released without charge on Friday evening.[/FONT][/COLOR]
    [*******#333333][FONT=Arial]Investigators are trying to establish if Merah, a 23-year-old French citizen of Algerian descent, acted alone.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17499831[/FONT][/COLOR]

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    Senior Member Camera's Avatar
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    Merah felt 'endless pleasure' during school massacre
    [FONT=Arial]
    As his house lay under siege, Toulouse terrorist Mohammed Merah admitted to police that he felt 'endless pleasure' during Ozar Hatorah attack; wished he could have killed more[/FONT]
    [*******#646464][FONT=Arial]
    Roi Simyoni

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...207446,00.html[/FONT][/COLOR]

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