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Thread: Toulouse Suspects Cornered

  1. #481
    Senior Member TG211's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakleaf View Post
    In the newspaper this morning a read that there was a "islamic-support-demonstration for Mohammed M" in France... those people don't understand that they are making it worse for their community... how do they think that the public wil act ? (elections ahead). Those moslims sure have a problem with rublic relations...
    What the hell ? Seriously ?! Didn't hear about this **** ! Though the conspiracy nuts are already going bonkers, about how convenient it's close to election time, or that they "triggered" him to do the attack (goddamn microwaves ! where's the tinfoil hat ?!)

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    Senior Member Mordoror's Avatar
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    I think people, who commit these crimes, (if you could look into their skull) are for sure 99% psychopaths ... to justify their crimes they screen the "religuous market" to find the appropriate alibi for their actions...
    Nah
    99% are psychologically and intellectually weak and easilly brainwashed (much like in sects and with the same methods). That's doesn't make them psychologically ill (exactly like others sect member.) But taking pleasure of slaughtering kids is another level. : i.e psychopathic behaviour. They are more dangerous because more impredictable and more manipulative of their environment, exactly like MM.

  3. #483
    Senior Member Camera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakleaf View Post
    (…)

    In the newspaper this morning a read that there was a "islamic-support-demonstration for Mohammed M" in France... those people don't understand that they are making it worse for their community... how do they think that the public wil act ? (elections ahead). Those moslims sure have a problem with rublic relations...
    It's far more than a PR issue. It reflects the support/fascination/sympathy of a part of the Muslim community with radical Islam and terrorism.

    This phenomenon is very dangerous and the ideologies behind it should be fought more actively.
    Unfortunately on this front, the influence of the state and the mainstream media on this fragment of the population is quite marginal. The Muslim authorities of France could make a much more effective contribution.

    In the last days, different Muslim leaders in France not only strongly condemned MM but also stated that the ideas he defends have nothing to do with Islam. This is an important message. It should continue to be passed to the members of the community on a regular basis, even after the present terror attacks are forgotten.

    On one hand, the moderate preachers in the mosques could have an important educative role. They should enlighten the believers on the derivative Islamic ideologies and the sad record of the terror groups they created: AQ, MB, Hamas, Hezbollah, Al-Quds…
    On the other hand, the radical preachers should be identified and banned from all the mosques. It won't be easy to achieve, because it seems that when the moderate Muslims dare to oppose them, they are threatened and silenced.

  4. #484
    Senior Member Telmar's Avatar
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    @Camera

    I agree. One of the issues that the Muslim community (but not only them) has is that the words of what are seen as "pampered elites" does not resonate that deep down.

    It's on the local level that actions will be the most rewarding.

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    Senior Member Ivan le Fou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mordoror View Post
    Nah
    99% are psychologically and intellectually weak and easilly brainwashed (much like in sects and with the same methods). That's doesn't make them psychologically ill (exactly like others sect member.) But taking pleasure of slaughtering kids is another level. : i.e psychopathic behaviour. They are more dangerous because more impredictable and more manipulative of their environment, exactly like MM.
    I may have a possible, and perhaps simplistic, explanation about that. Who did MM kill? French soldiers, a rabbi and three Franco-jewish kids, plus he wounded a few policemen. Who do these radicals hate the most? French soldiers for their action in Afghanistan, Jewish people for they are Jewish and policemen for they represent a state and a country they hate (but still live in and receive welfare from).

    From what you could hear and read, from these people praising the actions of MM, all this was fine. He was a good guy who stood by his idea and kept his word as for what he would do. All the rest, killing these soldiers, teacher and children were absolutely fine.

    Condamnations from Muslim leaders is a good thing yes, this has to be condemned. But is it really enough? I don't think those concerned by these condemnations really care and/or are affected by them. It only creates another schism inside the Muslim community and another "class" on which the moderate Muslim leaders have no influence on.

    And then you also have all the supporters, flagging themselves as muslims for they are from Magreb or have parents/relatives originating from north Africa/Middle East countries but who, appart from spending hollidays "au bled" and practicing Ramadan, have no ties with the Muslim religion. Adding weight and popularity to the radical movement through and irrelevant and somehow hypocritical behavior.

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    Urrghh what ideologies?

    It's France, not Lebanon, nor the Gaza *****. Most of those groups have a goal, the primary goal is political. What does AQ, the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, the Hizb have in common? They're all byproducts. I don't know why you put forward al-Quds, but I guess while your brush was going too far it was still useful. You can always backpedal afterwards.

    MM had no political goal. He was a psychopath, with a personnality disorder who had said during the stand off things and their contrary. He was deluded, probably under influence (both spiritual and narcotic). "That fragment of the population" is by far the most materialistic, the most laborious (most Immigrants/Allochtones work 20% further to achieve parity of revenue in Europe generally) and most shat upon piece of the puzzle.

    Most of these guys are on a state of mental disarray because they see clear through the system we have in Europe. It's a hell of a life, granted better than what they could have expected had they seen the light on their "home" countries, to live when you are continuously confronted with the filthy sight of social stagnation and rejection. They cave in easily and can't cope with it. While you seem pretty much adamant to accuse Islam by deflection, I'd be far more cautious on that, since we had not so far other similar issues with social disparity. It was called class warfare. While everyone buried Communism, they all forgot that communism was a reaction. A fairly constructed one, but yet a reaction. And before communism, France had a Revolution. And before that a Religious conflict. etc etc etc. Class warfare just got a "djellabah".

    The bottom point here is not religion. The point here is terror and causes of terror. Even MM said it was "payback". I never heard anyone saying this was an attempt to mass convert the whole of France. This should remind us that we're powerless towards our own allegations. We don't have any moral advantage (other than on paper) over these people. We don't as individuals, but we try as a society. That society is being slowly broken into bits. Let's try to hold it together while we can, instead of flinging accusation of Muslims doeing not enough to fight terror. Last time I checked they're the ones suffering from it the most.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KoTeMoRe View Post
    Urrghh what ideologies?

    It's France, not Lebanon, nor the Gaza *****. Most of those groups have a goal, the primary goal is political. What does AQ, the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, the Hizb have in common? They're all byproducts. I don't know why you put forward al-Quds, but I guess while your brush was going too far it was still useful. You can always backpedal afterwards.

    MM had no political goal. He was a psychopath, with a personnality disorder who had said during the stand off things and their contrary. He was deluded, probably under influence (both spiritual and narcotic). "That fragment of the population" is by far the most materialistic, the most laborious (most Immigrants/Allochtones work 20% further to achieve parity of revenue in Europe generally) and most shat upon piece of the puzzle.

    Most of these guys are on a state of mental disarray because they see clear through the system we have in Europe. It's a hell of a life, granted better than what they could have expected had they seen the light on their "home" countries, to live when you are continuously confronted with the filthy sight of social stagnation and rejection. They cave in easily and can't cope with it. While you seem pretty much adamant to accuse Islam by deflection, I'd be far more cautious on that, since we had not so far other similar issues with social disparity. It was called class warfare. While everyone buried Communism, they all forgot that communism was a reaction. A fairly constructed one, but yet a reaction. And before communism, France had a Revolution. And before that a Religious conflict. etc etc etc. Class warfare just got a "djellabah".

    The bottom point here is not religion. The point here is terror and causes of terror. Even MM said it was "payback". I never heard anyone saying this was an attempt to mass convert the whole of France. This should remind us that we're powerless towards our own allegations. We don't have any moral advantage (other than on paper) over these people. We don't as individuals, but we try as a society. That society is being slowly broken into bits. Let's try to hold it together while we can, instead of flinging accusation of Muslims doeing not enough to fight terror. Last time I checked they're the ones suffering from it the most.
    Good post. I agree.

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    I wholeheartedly agree with Kotemore too

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    I'm curious to know how this MM managed to fund his trips to A-stan/Pakistan, and the purchase of his weapons. He was obviously receiving help from somewhere. Just how must state welfare was he receiving anyway? Has there been any discussion on this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mas-36 View Post
    I'm curious to know how this MM managed to fund his trips to A-stan/Pakistan, and the purchase of his weapons. He was obviously receiving help from somewhere. Just how must state welfare was he receiving anyway? Has there been any discussion on this?
    He was a petty thief and bought his weapons with the spoils of burglaries and thefts. Perhaps he funded his trips in the same manner.

    edit: it would then be interesting to see if his fencers are found, and if they can then be accused of complicity/support to terrorist crimes...

  11. #491
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoTeMoRe View Post
    Urrghh what ideologies?

    It's France, not Lebanon, nor the Gaza *****. Most of those groups have a goal, the primary goal is political. What does AQ, the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, the Hizb have in common? They're all byproducts. I don't know why you put forward al-Quds, but I guess while your brush was going too far it was still useful. You can always backpedal afterwards.
    Al-Quds Brigades or whatever… All these groups were created elsewhere by different Islamic trends that have nothing to do with the identity and the problems of the Muslims in France. Their ideology is spread not only by the internet, but also through TV channels that one could watch in France.

    MM had no political goal. He was a psychopath, with a personnality disorder who had said during the stand off things and their contrary. He was deluded, probably under influence (both spiritual and narcotic).
    What are your sources for this?
    The fact is, he was granted with sympathy by a fragment of the population.


    "That fragment of the population" is by far the most materialistic, the most laborious (most Immigrants/Allochtones work 20% further to achieve parity of revenue in Europe generally) and most shat upon piece of the puzzle.
    Who said the contrary? French Muslims are a part of our nation and this is clear for everybody.

    Most of these guys are on a state of mental disarray because they see clear through the system we have in Europe. It's a hell of a life, granted better than what they could have expected had they seen the light on their "home" countries, to live when you are continuously confronted with the filthy sight of social stagnation and rejection. They cave in easily and can't cope with it. While you seem pretty much adamant to accuse Islam by deflection, I'd be far more cautious on that, since we had not so far other similar issues with social disparity. It was called class warfare. While everyone buried Communism, they all forgot that communism was a reaction. A fairly constructed one, but yet a reaction. And before communism, France had a Revolution. And before that a Religious conflict. etc etc etc. Class warfare just got a "djellabah".
    I didn't accuse Islam. I just repeated what the French Muslim leaders said about radical Islam having nothing to do with Islam.
    The economic and social hardship are shared by all French. Still we have an expensive social policy in France that is among the most advanced in Europe. And these problems could not justify terrorism.


    The bottom point here is not religion. The point here is terror and causes of terror. Even MM said it was "payback". I never heard anyone saying this was an attempt to mass convert the whole of France.
    I never heard someone saying that 9/11 was an attempt to mass convert the whole of the US either.

    This should remind us that we're powerless towards our own allegations. We don't have any moral advantage (other than on paper) over these people. We don't as individuals, but we try as a society. That society is being slowly broken into bits. Let's try to hold it together while we can, instead of flinging accusation of Muslims doeing not enough to fight terror.
    It's not about accusation, but about education.
    French young Muslims should realize that their greatest enemy are not the French institutions, nor the Christians or the Jews, but the Islamic fanatics.

    Last time I checked they're the ones suffering from it the most.
    Exactly. This fact was not clearly stated enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mas-36 View Post
    I'm curious to know how this MM managed to fund his trips to A-stan/Pakistan, and the purchase of his weapons. He was obviously receiving help from somewhere. Just how must state welfare was he receiving anyway? Has there been any discussion on this?
    Selling MJ can land you around 200 per day when done properly. Sweep a couple of months and you have enough for your deeds. You don't need to have a network of terrorists, you just need a network of criminals.

    Camera that's nonsense. I've yet to see a French Muslim call out for the Hizb...but I see a French trying to put all the cats in the same bag. That French is a she, and running for President. She's blonde.

    Oh and not all French share the same "hardship". That's a well proven fact.

  13. #493
    Senior Member Atlantic Friend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoTeMoRe View Post
    MM had no political goal. He was a psychopath, with a personnality disorder who had said during the stand off things and their contrary.
    He was a psychopath, but he had a political goal nonetheless - he didn't kill random victims for **** and giggles, he picked his victims according to his beliefs and view of the world, however twisted they were, and his actions were coherent with it. His rantings also were coherent : he wanted to kill more French soldiers because of Afghanistan, to kill more Jewish kids because of Israeli occupation, just as he had started to do.

    The fact is, politics always allure to the sociopaths as it gives them an inflated perception of themselves. They're not two-bit losers anymore, they are the vanguard of the new world order, comes in every political/religious flavor. Some turn into preachy Internet types, some turn to real political activism, some choose another path.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atlantic Friend View Post
    He was a psychopath, but he had a political goal nonetheless - he didn't kill random victims for **** and giggles, he picked his victims according to his beliefs and view of the world, however twisted they were, and his actions were coherent with it. His rantings also were coherent : he wanted to kill more French soldiers because of Afghanistan, to kill more Jewish kids because of Israeli occupation, just as he had started to do.

    The fact is, politics always allure to the sociopaths as it gives them an inflated perception of themselves. They're not two-bit losers anymore, they are the vanguard of the new world order, comes in every political/religious flavor. Some turn into preachy Internet types, some turn to real political activism, some choose another path.
    He was a psycho with political goals? he was a fanatic, he used terror, but IMO he was just a psycho and a terrorist. more the first than the second.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atlantic Friend View Post
    He was a psychopath, but he had a political goal nonetheless - he didn't kill random victims for **** and giggles, he picked his victims according to his beliefs and view of the world, however twisted they were, and his actions were coherent with it. His rantings also were coherent : he wanted to kill more French soldiers because of Afghanistan, to kill more Jewish kids because of Israeli occupation, just as he had started to do.

    The fact is, politics always allure to the sociopaths as it gives them an inflated perception of themselves. They're not two-bit losers anymore, they are the vanguard of the new world order, comes in every political/religious flavor. Some turn into preachy Internet types, some turn to real political activism, some choose another path.
    Not according to his deeds. Ozar hatorah was an opportunity target. The soldiers were a semi-searched target. Revenge on behalf a corpus that doesn't exist, nor agrees seems like a mental disease to me. I coud go out there and claim I'm doeing stuff for the Proletkult that wouldn't make me a Communist.

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