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Thread: To be black is to be a criminal

  1. #31
    Senior Member Universals's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hollis View Post
    That is what the governor said, stand your ground does not apply in this situation. The opinion that really counts on this is the court's.
    X2.

    It also seems that folks are forgetting that stand your ground is a two way street....it also apply to the kid. Even if he was the one dishing the out the punishment before shots rang out. He was well within he's right to stand his ground and resist with equal force when being chased down by an armed, older, and larger man. because it seems the main point of the defense (however contentious) is that Zimmerman was the person on the ground calling for help. I'm not sure that will hold up.

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    Senior Member Dominique's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hollis View Post
    We can blame the police all we want, all they can do is arrest a person. It is up to the DA if there are charges and that they will prosecute. Without charge and the desire to prosecute the case, there will be no arrest. I think, at this point it is up the grand jury if charges are filed and that they will prosecute.
    The DA isn't going to go forward with a prosecution, unless he thinks he can win the case. They don't want to go and arrest Zimmerman, only to have him released, or have the charges null processed.

  3. #33
    Μολὼν λαβέ Hollis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSumner View Post
    I know the point they're trying to get across, as I think it's a media generated term, that's come into use by people who don't really want to use the term racism. As far as racism in the US goes, no it's not discussed, as it makes people feel uncomfortable. They just don't want to admit that it still exists, and that it does affect some to the decisions they make in their lives. And when I say it exists, I'm not just talking about Whites either, as I've meet Black, Hispanic, and Asian racists.

    It's funny when I hear to black guys talking about how Hispanics, or Asians, or how "they" do this that and the other. Or a Korean store own who doesn't want black kids in his store because, "Black people steal". But none of them even think that what they're saying is even remotely racist.
    One person who was giving a talk on racism stated, "Basic racism is when one's race becomes part of how another person views them." Part of the thinking of our culture is to pigeon hole people by Race, Se_x, Se_xual orientation, etc. As we get to know a person better, we think less about their characteristics and see them as a individual.

    Racism needs not be where is it harmful against the other person, based on superior or inferior ideas, or actually causing physical harm to the other person. Racism does come in different degrees of action, same with any other forum of bigotry. Stereotypes are a example, as you point out. It can even be like, "They got off Scott free."

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    Banned user Createdeemcee's Avatar
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    Yes when I hear them say the stand your ground law is racist , I have to chuckle there. I know a handfull of blacks who ended bad situations while standing thier ground and using this law to the fullest. This law can be used by any race as it aint race specific. This is what I dont understand. I'll be damn if I would give any criminal that upper hand. This law works when the armed citizen does what hes supposed to do. In the case zimmerman didnt stand his ground, he chased making him a murderer.

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    Senior Member Dominique's Avatar
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    Another problem we have is when minorities cry racism all of the time. Racism does exist, but quit crying racism everytime something happens that you don't like. "I didn't get hired because they're racist" (lets ignore that you got to the interview late, looked like you just rolled out of bed, and had an attitude problem). "I didn't get a bond because the magistrate is racist." (but hey, I guess that you're a two time convicted felon, and ran from the state trooper, and have a history of failure to appears, didn't affect the magistrate's decision in any way).

    And the same holds true to some of whites I know. I can't get a job be cause they're only hiring minorities (even though the unemployment rate among blacks is bout twice that among whites). Or the only reason he/she got into this school is because they're black (without being able to see exactly what it was that caused the admissions board to select the individual. And my favorite, hearing a story on the news, about a crime, and assuming that the person who did it was black or Hispanic.

  6. #36
    Member J-B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kimujnr View Post
    In my opinion after viewing some of those vids; Al Sharpton, and those Black Panther morons need to be kept as far away from this issue as possible. Just poisoning the discourse as always, sadly he's the loudest mouthpiece the black populace has so they're at his mercy.
    Sharpton is not the mouthpiece for the black populace as far I'm concerned. He's just a shit stirrer that capitalizes on tragedies like this to get his annoying face in the media.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DSumner View Post
    First off, Treyvon was minding his own business, walking home from the store, when he was stalked by what was essentially an armed predator.
    Neither of the two is criminal (walking home or following someone to see what they're up to).

    You're also assuming that the kid (who's a hell of a lot smaller than the guy who was following him), suddenly decided to attack Zimmerman. The person that was standing his ground was not Zimmerman (who'd pursued Treyvonafter being told not to).
    I'm not justifying Zimmerman, but based on numerous reports he was assaulted by Treyvon (numerous injuries to the head, and had Zimmerman on the ground). You can argue if Zimmerman had it coming, but the end result is that Treyvon is dead. If I was being "stalked" by someone (even when personally armed), I would try to avoid a confrontation. It has nothing to do with who is "right" and everything to do with being street smart.

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    Μολὼν λαβέ Hollis's Avatar
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    Seems like a good article on the incident:

    http://www.theatlantic.com/national/...efense/255006/

  9. #39
    Senior Member Dominique's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mechin View Post
    Neither of the two is criminal (walking home or following someone to see what they're up to).
    That depends, we don't know that Zimmerman's only intent was to just keep an eye on the kid.

    Quote Originally Posted by mechin View Post
    I'm not justifying Zimmerman, but based on numerous reports he was assaulted by Treyvon (numerous injuries to the head, and had Zimmerman on the ground). You can argue if Zimmerman had it coming, but the end result is that Treyvon is dead. If I was being "stalked" by someone (even when personally armed), I would try to avoid a confrontation. It has nothing to do with who is "right" and everything to do with being street smart.
    You're assuming the kid attacked Zimmerman without provocation. Just because Zimmerman had injuries shows that he was in a fight, nothing more. If start following someone, who's minding his own business chase them down, and then get my a$$ whipped, and then shoot them, it's a little hard for me to go to court, and claim I was assaulted and shot them in self defense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DSumner View Post
    That depends, we don't know that Zimmerman's only intent was to just keep an eye on the kid.
    We know enough about his intent and his actions to alert police (recorded statements). If there was anything criminal in the intent he'd be arrested already.

    You're assuming the kid attacked Zimmerman without provocation. Just because Zimmerman had injuries shows that he was in a fight, nothing more.
    I'm not assuming anything as I don't have any additional evidence. But I can assure you this will likely be Zimmerman's defense (and the likely story he recopunted to the responding police officers).

    If start following someone, who's minding his own business chase them down, and then get my a$$ whipped, and then shoot them, it's a little hard for me to go to court, and claim I was assaulted and shot them in self defense.
    So if you're a member in the community watch of a gated community and you're following a person you're not familiar with, it would serve you right to get your a$$ whipped? It sounds like you're already justifying a physical response by Treyvor, and if that did occur Zimmerman will walk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Universal_Soldier View Post
    It also seems that folks are forgetting that stand your ground is a two way street....it also apply to the kid.
    It does, but it has no application if the other person was simply following him.

    Even if he was the one dishing the out the punishment before shots rang out.
    Before shots rang out there were two individuals that were not violating the law or each others rights (as much as the media is trying to paint Zimmerman guilty for following Treyvon). What happened next was a confrontation that resulted in a physical altercation. So far nobody has a full picture (or presented it to the public) about how it started or what preceded the discharge of the weapon.

    Street smarts on both of them would have resulted in avoiding a confrontation and alerting/awaiting LEO. Now one is dead and the other one destroyed his life.

    He was well within he's right to stand his ground and resist with equal force when being chased down by an armed, older, and larger man.
    You have no right to confront someone that is simply following you. The only piece of evidence we know for a fact is that he was being followed. Unless you have more evidence about Zimmerman's actions (which would indicate that he provoked the altercation) then we'll just have to wait to learn more about these details.

    And again, even if Treyvon was armed (which he wasn't), the smart thing to do is avoid a confrontation.

    it seems the main point of the defense (however contentious) is that Zimmerman was the person on the ground calling for help. I'm not sure that will hold up.
    His defense will likely be that he was indeed following Treyvon (not a crime), and that after an exchange of words found himself on the ground with various head injuries. He would then likely present evidence that he feared for his life and needed to use his weapon to defend himself. He he can prove the above scenario he will walk.

  12. #42
    Senior Member harryc's Avatar
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    From (Republican) [*******#444444][FONT=Times New Roman]South Carolina Republican Senator, Lindsey Graham
    [/FONT][/COLOR]
    [SIZE=3]
    [*******#444444][FONT=Times New Roman]I donít want to waste your time, with a big long rant, or a stupid debate, over whether race played a part in this issue. The fact is, that so long as we have to ask ourselves if race is playing a part in the issue, it is about race. So long as we have a 911 tape with racial slurs being directed at the victim, it is about race. So long as we have white boys safely walking around in hoodies with sweet tea and skittles, it is about race. Most importantly; so long as we have presidential candidates who *****foot around issues like this, and try to make them not about race, because their white skin or privileged background doesnít allow them to feel empathy for a mother who has so obviously and unjustly lost her child, itís always going to be about race.[/FONT][/COLOR]
    [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=3]Addicting Info[/SIZE]

  13. #43
    Μολὼν λαβέ Hollis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSumner View Post
    That depends, we don't know that Zimmerman's only intent was to just keep an eye on the kid.



    You're assuming the kid attacked Zimmerman without provocation. Just because Zimmerman had injuries shows that he was in a fight, nothing more. If start following someone, who's minding his own business chase them down, and then get my a$$ whipped, and then shoot them, it's a little hard for me to go to court, and claim I was assaulted and shot them in self defense.

    From reading your posts, It seems you have made up your mind that Zimmerman is the perp. A lot of people already have done the same. Like you say mechin is assuming, I think that is the case for you too. IMHO, it would be nice if the investigation was over so people can stop assuming. Like in the Video, the one person Will, was arguing for basing information on known fact and not assuming. In the end, Zimmerman may have murdered the kid, but at this time it is a unknown. The Atlantic article seems to have been pretty non-bias and well written.

    Your use of terms, chase down, seems to imply something more going on. Statements like that does a disservice to the facts and only inflame the situation, as you used them in your other post. If you were a prosecutor, those words would be used.

    When I had a business long ago, we had problems in out downtown area. So we formed a neighborhood patrol. Saying hi to people was a part of it. We were fortunate there where no altercations. We don't know what Zimmerman said to the Kid or what the kid's response were. Also the Atlantic Article pointed out that the extent of injuries are not known. It was mentioned that Zimmerman had a broken nose and some other injuries include a cut that required stitches. There was no mentioned of any injuries to the kid, outside of being shot.

    One thing for certain, there is a lot of assuming going on. Justice is not about assuming.

  14. #44
    Senior Member kimujnr's Avatar
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    I've been corrected by a few members and rightly so. Sharpton is more so the self anointed representative of the black populace, in my opinion he's more trouble than he's worth. Its like when Jesse Jackson's bored ass sat at Whitney's funeral and nobody could find a reason why in the hell he was there sulking like he "had" to be there!

    I personally feel that the stand your ground law is a little iffy but its far from racist. I was watching CNN this weekend and they reported on a black guy who killed a former service member who was intervening in an altercation when the old guy whipped out his piece in the scuffle and shot him. He showed no remorse for his actions citing it as defense and was let off based on "stand your ground." Now a mother/wife and children go without a father and husband. I'd post the link but I gotta run to class.

  15. #45
    Senior Member Dominique's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mechin View Post
    We know enough about his intent and his actions to alert police (recorded statements). If there was anything criminal in the intent he'd be arrested already.
    Again, not necessarily. That's not always the way it works.

    Quote Originally Posted by mechin View Post
    But I can assure you this will likely be Zimmerman's defense (and the likely story he recopunted to the responding police officers).
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by mechin View Post
    So if you're a member in the community watch of a gated community and you're following a person you're not familiar with, it would serve you right to get your a$$ whipped? It sounds like you're already justifying a physical response by Treyvor, and if that did occur Zimmerman will walk.
    I'm not saying the next time someone follows you, put a beat down on them, but if you're walking along, at night, talking on your phone, minding your own business, and someone starts following you, and you have no idea why, odds are pretty good you're going to think their they don't have the best of intentions for you, and will act accordingly. The simple fact remains, if Zimmerman had done as he was told, and quit following the kid, none of this would have happened.

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