Another twitterer faces death in Saudi Arabia

[muck]

My Catholic church comment had nothing to do with the *** scandals.

I didn't say that either. Just bringing up the first scandalous thing that came to my mind.

Why do they have to voice their views? Why do they have to come out and appologize, condemn or whatever, every time something happens? What does the dude in Germany have to do with SA? He is representing people in Germany, not in SA.

He is representing a religion that exists both in Saudi-Arabia and Germany. He doesn't get to demand not to be compared to radicals as long as he doesn't actively seek distinction from them. It's as simple as that.

Again I ask you, if a Catholic in Chile does something bad, does the Archbishop of Munich (?) HAVE to come out and condemn that? Does the Pope? If an Episcopalian does something bad, who appologizes for him/her? Just Episcopalians, or every Christan in the world?

As far as I'm concerned it's a "yes" on all your questions, if we're talking about religious matters anyway. If the Archbishop of Munich wishes not to be lumped together with his corrupted counterpart in Chile, he needs to speak out against him. More than any other Catholic official the Pope, being the head of the Catholic Church, needs to take action against the Chilean. And last but not least - it is up to every follower of a religion to voice opposition against religious matters they do not agree with. If they don't, it may not automatically mean they're consenting but it sure-as-hell doesn't entitle them to demand anything from others.

[Xaito]

My Catholic church comment had nothing to do with the *** scandals. It was meant as a hierarchical comparison. There is no top-down hierarchy in Islam, as there is in the Catholic church for example.
Why do they have to voice their views? Why do they have to come out and appologize, condemn or whatever, every time something happens? What does the dude in Germany have to do with SA? He is representing people in Germany, not in SA.
Again I ask you, if a Catholic in Chile does something bad, does the Archbishop of Munich (?) HAVE to come out and condemn that? Does the Pope? If an Episcopalian does something bad, who appologizes for him/her? Just Episcopalians, or every Christan in the world?

No, they don't have to say a damn thing about this case. It has nothing to do with them. It's a matter for SA and their medieval ways. Has nothing to do with the guy in Istanbul or Berlin or NYC going about his day. Calling people radicals until they prove in a satisfactory fashion that they are are not, is so very productive. Of course, the bar for that proof will keep rising.

Personally I don't expect or want apologies or whatever from our German muslims for things they don't do.
I do get the feeling though that some of our local ringleaders preach the very same BS that leads to people getting punished, hurt or killed for trivial stuff in some parts of the world.

[TG211]

As much as I'm appalled by many people my familial roots share religion with, I never said "As a 'cultural' muslim (by family ties, not conviction), I'm sorry for Merah, Ben Laden, 9-11, etc... *seemingly endless list*"

But good Lord, still makes me pissed at the people not saying anything !

You are 100% and I wish more of my fellow Americans woke up about it. After 9/11 we should have bombed and occupied KSA, including Mecca. We should have imposed an anti-Wahhabization similar to the efforts in post-war Germany and Japan. That is how we would have changed the ME and made the best effort to eliminate terrorism (by hitting them at home and in their pocket). Instead we're focusing on pointless distractions like Afghanistan, Iraq, or Iran.

Woah, dude ! Then forget anything about Afghanistan and Iraq combined ! Instead of having muslim countries divided about such issues, at the best indifferent, some "volunteers" going by themselves, or vocally angered, you'd get 99% of the 1.3 bln muslims up in arms. ****, that stuff could even unite Shias and Sunnis, and that's the last thing most of us, common sense people, want !!

[ggk]

I'll recite that to everyone who tries to get fresh with me over Islam-criticism.
Why do I feel entitled? I'm yet to hear any Muslim official no matter from what country raise their voice and at least call for mercy.

you know what?

paste that cartoon on every MUSLIMS SOLDIER GRAVES WHO DIES FIGHTING AGAINST TERRORISM

[ggk]

That being said, about 28,000 malaysian hajj going to mecca every year... all the the saudis need to do is blackmail malaysia... and all the the sudden out of nowhere malaysia have an extradition agreement with the saudis.

[Mujo2000]

[QUOTE=TG211;6105176]As much as I'm appalled by many people my familial roots share religion with, I never said "As a 'cultural' muslim (by family ties, not conviction), I'm sorry for Merah, Ben Laden, 9-11, etc... *seemingly endless list*"

But good Lord, still makes me pissed at the people not saying anything !
QUOTE]

I've never got an appology from a French or a German or from any Christian for that matter for the death of my grandfather, who was executed by Christians. Nor for the destruction of our property, nor for the scattering of our family into all four winds.
I highly doubt that they guy sitting at home somewhere, feels any responsibility for the guy who wore a cross on his chest, got blessed by a Christian priest before he went out and killed my grandfather along with five other men they captured, WHO WERE NOT ARMED, NOR BEEN PART OF ANY ARMED FORCE.
Just because I and 1.5 billion other share the same religion as the Saudis, doesn't mean that I have to feel any responsibility for their actions. They live in a medieval society. They execute people as sorcerers for ****s sake.

[haze99]

yes mujo2000, one act by and individual or group does not constitute that of a whole group or nation. However, muck makes a clear point, one I wish the Western media and governments would stand for. If you do not want to be associated with the taleban, al-queda, islamic jihad, hezbolah and a myriad of other terrorist groups (who all happen to be muslim, or at least THEY claim they are muslim-islamic!) then as muck said, you declare your seperation from such groups. You state your disapproval of such actions. If not, then how can I, muck or any other non-muslim discern where you stand in reagrds to such actions? By having a seance? Or useless "outreach" dialogue, where one is lied too and nothing further ever happens when the next incident takes place?
ggk, how many American/British/Canadian or ANZAC muslims have did fighting in Afghanistan or Iraq? I am curious? One? Maybe two? (this is not World War II and there are no muslim battalions or reigments that have been formed who are now fighting against islamic terrorism in the world.)
mujo, in what war did "christians" kill your grandfather, I am curious. Thank you.

[ggk]

ggk, how many American/British/Canadian or ANZAC muslims have did fighting in Afghanistan or Iraq? I am curious? One? Maybe two? (this is not World War II and there are no muslim battalions or reigments that have been formed who are now fighting against islamic terrorism in the world.) mujo, in what war did "christians" kill your grandfather, I am curious. Thank you.

why the hell frakking us Iraqis, Indonesian, Malaysian, UAE, Pakistanis, Muslims Indian Soldiers, sided with america (and the rest of the world) fighting terrorism if there are people like you who are so narrow minded unable to even see our gallant effort?

What do you call The INDONESIAN SPECIAL FORCES who hunt kill and destroy so many terror cells in their country?
What about the thousand of pakistani forces who perish securing the SWAT?
What about the malaysian contingent in Afganistan now.. they are some kind of monkey to you?

oh come on!! at least you should have heard about the Iraqi Special Operations Forces (ISOF)