Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 29

Thread: Must U.S. Navy Downsize Plans?

  1. #1
    Banned user
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    240

    Default Must U.S. Navy Downsize Plans?

    The U.S. Navy is already as its lowest point ship wise since World War I. Now it will go to 276 ships. That is very small deployed all over the world. With China having over 150 dedicated ships in the Pacific, is the U.S. doomed to be over matched by the Chinese? Seems possible.

    http://the-diplomat.com/flashpoints-...ownsize-plans/

  2. #2
    Senior Member Steak-Sauce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Saupreiß, Obacht!
    Posts
    9,213

    Default

    Thread title: U.S. Navy Smallest Since World War I, Tries to Meet China's Growing Fleet: Good Luck
    Article title: Must U.S. Navy Downsize Plans?

    Pray tell, why don't you just stick to the real deal and stop making up sensationalist crap?

    PS: After heaving read the entire article, where the fvck is the author talking about the US trying to meet China's growing fleet?

  3. #3
    Senior Member KillerBD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    2,966

    Default

    I like how they bring up WWI, like the next one is going to be the US vs China. Get ready for WWIII, 276-150... Quality vs quantity. China with their evil 150 ships in the Pacific, well no kidding. China has a navy in the Pacific with a 150 boats? Whats the surprise, they have a large country with a massive population. Expanding their sphere of influence abroad is nothing out of the ordinary, annoying how are media here loves to paint other countries. "The next 'big-war' you know what I mean, China and their spread of communism..."

  4. #4
    WTF am I doing with my life? Token White Guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    'Bama
    Age
    22
    Posts
    10,051

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Steak-Sauce View Post
    Thread title: U.S. Navy Smallest Since World War I, Tries to Meet China's Growing Fleet: Good Luck
    Article title: Must U.S. Navy Downsize Plans?

    Pray tell, why don't you just stick to the real deal and stop making up sensationalist crap?
    Because that is Travis's schtick. Never mind the fact the US still has the largest navy.

  5. #5
    How's that Hopey Changey thing workin'? C.Puffs's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Goddamnit avatar GROWWWW!
    Posts
    16,150

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Token White Guy View Post
    Because that is Travis's schtick. Never mind the fact the US still has the largest navy.
    The problem is the earth is the same size it's always been so it's going to be tougher to cover the necessary area with fewer ships. The sizes of others' navies are almost irrelevant.

  6. #6
    Goat Roper shermbodius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Deep in the wastelands of the North
    Posts
    12,070

    Default

    I would rather have one fully functional aircraft carrier than 100 row boats. Just saying.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Winger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Brevard County FL
    Age
    37
    Posts
    3,938

    Default

    The author is ridiculous. Obivously, capability didn't come in to play. We may have fewer ships but our ships are more capable and more powerful per unit. Not to mention, training & readiness when compared to other navies let alone China.

  8. #8
    WTF am I doing with my life? Token White Guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    'Bama
    Age
    22
    Posts
    10,051

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Winger View Post
    The author is ridiculous. Obivously, capability didn't come in to play. We may have fewer ships but our ships are more capable and more powerful per unit. Not to mention, training & readiness when compared to other navies let alone China.
    Hey now. Don't try to bring logic in a Travis thread.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Universals's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Somewhere in STL....Smoking my life away
    Posts
    5,888

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by C.Puffs View Post
    The problem is the earth is the same size it's always been so it's going to be tougher to cover the necessary area with fewer ships. The sizes of others' navies are almost irrelevant.
    Advances in Radar and weapons tech does make loads of difference though

  10. #10
    Senior Member Winger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Brevard County FL
    Age
    37
    Posts
    3,938

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Token White Guy View Post
    Hey now. Don't try to bring logic in a Travis thread.
    I meant to say the author of the title is ridiculous. Obviously, the article is sound but how Travis generated a topic title like that from reading the article is beyond me.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Mu-Meson's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    May 2001
    Age
    27
    Posts
    5,114

    Default

    Is there a rule on this forum that says the thread title MUST match exactly the title of any articles posted in that thread? Or are people allowed to post their own opinions and interpretations?

  12. #12
    Senior Member Bloo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Age
    25
    Posts
    2,289

    Default

    "Good luck" meeting the Chinese fleets growth? Even after the cuts, the USN will still be 10 Supercarriers, 15 Cruisers, ~60 Destroyers, and ~20 Frigates/LCS as well as a large fleet of amphibious warfare vessels and ~70 nuclear submarines. The Chinese will never meet that kind of size.

  13. #13
    Member Laptop Hobo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Along the shores of the Sound
    Posts
    265

    Default

    The PLAN navy is weighed down with a number of very poor vessels when compared with the US fleet. Even a much smaller US task force could survive in a contested coastal environment off the Chinese coast.

    The USN's 21st Century Battle Force which will rule the waves from 2013-2142 will consist of about 300 ships (currently 282)

    12 ballistic missile submarines (SSBN)
    10-11 nuclear powered aircraft carriers (CVN)
    ~48 attack submarines (SSN)
    0-4 cruise missile submarines (SSGN) (possibly replaced by Virgina class SSNs by 2027)
    78-90 "large multi-mission surface combatants" (DDG/CG)
    26-55 "small multi-role surface combatants' (FF/FFG/LCS/PC)
    28-32 amphibious landing ships (LHA/LHD/LPD/LSD)
    ~29 combat logistics ships (AO, AOR, AOE, AE, et al)
    24-33 support ships (MCM, AD, AS, et al)

    To do this the Navy plans to have constant construction from now until 2042 with 7-13 ships allocated every year, keep a 20 year life span for smaller ships and a 30-50 year span for larger ones. This will cost about $15-$20 billion per year in constant dollars.

    Things will get worse before they get better and fleet numbers will actually dip for the next few years until by 2015 there will be a 276-ship Navy. This is followed by a slow but steady rise to 307 ships by 2039.

    You can take roughly a quarter of these ships and forcast the size of a force sent into contested Chinese waters for a Blue on Red naval war (Lets Call it Harpoon 2015) and that would be:

    2-3 nuclear powered aircraft carriers (CVN)
    ~12 attack submarines (SSN)
    1+ cruise missile submarine (SSGN)
    20-25 "large multi-mission surface combatants" (DDG/CG)
    8-20 "small multi-role surface combatants' (FF/FFG/LCS/PC)
    7-8 amphibious landing ships (LHA/LHD/LPD/LSD) many of which could carry ASW helicopters and AV-8B/F-35C aircraft in a sea control role.
    plus combat logistics ships and support ships to keep them there.

    With ultra modern satcom linked real time situational awareness tying them all together like the Borg on crack.

    Facing them would be the might of the Dragon :

    The PLAN Navy

    4 Jin class SSBNs (which are a game changer)
    9 Han and Shang class SSNs (very noisy)
    50 cranky and loud diesel SSKs (including several old Ming boats)
    1 experimental aircraft carrier (of questionable combat capability)
    25 DD/DDG of which on the 4 Sovremenny and the 3 Luyang class can be called modern. These overall are still inferior to US DDG-51 class destroyers on a ship-to-ship basis.
    47 Frigates- many of whom are 2,000 ton Jianghu-class corvettes that are closer in mission and armament to US Coast Guard cutters.

    ~300 small sub-chasers, gunboats, and fast attack craft. Most of these are just what their names say they are and would have a short life span in open sea combat with a modern naval force. However there are 60 fast Houbei class missile boats that could be very interesting in littoral situations, but still lack a true air defense and could be gobbled up by F-18s with LGBs, Harpoons, and even Standard missiles in a surface attack role.

    And lots of coastal based MIGs and SU's carrying bombs and guided missiles as well as shore based CSS-5 ASBMs and smaller Sizzlers but this is counter-pointed by new SM-3s fired from advanced flight DDG-51s and TLAMS fired both from the US fleet's SSGN and surface ships. You can bet to remain valid in future budget meetings the USAF will offer B-2 strikes on these positions staged from Guam as well as any new gee-whiz UAVs they can muster.

    China has a coastal navy, without a doubt. And lots of vintage Soviet 1960s tech. Granted they have a few newer ships, but overall, it would be hard pressed to take on a large modern western force.

    Of course, it would be unlikely that a US-China row would not include US allied naval platforms from the RN, RNAS, Taiwan, Japan, etc..which further tilts the advantage into the blue end of the spectrum.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Maximmmm's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    A Russian getting his education on in Vancouver, Canada
    Age
    19
    Posts
    1,694

    Default

    OH NO THE US NAVY IS SMALLER THAN ITS WW1 NAVY! What about the tiny FACT that modern ships are a billion times more capable than 100 year old stuff and you don't need the same amount...
    Jesus, how about trolling a bit less.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Halidon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    1,333

    Default

    Food for thought:
    The US navy has 286 ships and 351 flag officers.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •