Macedonia: Five fishermen found dead near a lake north of Skopje.

[Redbeard]

The issue however is that spurring ethnic tensions will lead nowhere as the region is under direct scrutiny for EU integration.

I have asked myself the same, but I think in the end that EU just wants peace and quiet. How that peace and quiet are achieved is not relevant. If it means ethnicly clear territories, I think EU will go with that. The best option is for all to get along on all territories, but let's not delude ourselves, we have all shown (by that I mean ex yugoslav ethnic populations) how much we care about that. There are ethnic tensions all over the Balkans, some miniscule, some big.

Trying to claw a piece of FYROM/Macedonia is not only suicide but will have two competing aspirations.

1. A Pan-Albanian one, nationalistic and pretty much void of reality (unless there is some real aspiration for huge sized headaches in Tirana).
2. A fabricated Islamist attachment to some vague entity putting forward the Muslim character on the Albanians in FYROM/Macedonia.

So what will the Albanophones do with these tensions? It is dumb really.

Maybe it is dumb taking a chunk of FYROM. I don't know. This is very reminiscent of how the shyt in Kosovo started. We all know how that escalated and ended.

Why shouldn't the Pan-Albanian movement try the same thing in FYROM? I don't see what EU will do to Albania or Kosovo or whichever other Albanian state comes from the FYROM chunk if FYROM looses a part of it's territory. Not allow it's joining in EU? FFS why? Have EU officials said they will not allow joining of Kosovo, even though they proclaimed independence unilateraly? And let's not forget 250.000 Serbs left Kosovo after 1999 war. Why would they do that if there wasn't any pressure from the Albanians? I don't see EU breaking a sweat over that. They don't care.

The only way to diffuse ethnic tensions in our neighborhood it seems is to allow the same thing that happened in Kosovo. One side wants out and a piece of the cake, other wants into EU. No problem, the first takes a chunk out, the other gets the EU after it let's that chunk go.

[Zarkus]

Smiljkovsko lake murder suspects transfered to Skopje Criminal Court

Skopje, 2 May 2012 (MIA) - Individuals arrested in police operation "Monster" have been transferred early Wednesday to the Skopje Criminal Court.
The Ministry of Interior is expected to submit criminal charges for terrorism against all those for whom there is evidence of being part of the recent massacre of the four boys and a middle-aged man near Skopje.
Twenty individuals have been detained, followers of radical Islam, mostly Macedonian nationals.
The persons have been arrested in several facilities during an operation conducted early Tuesday in Aracinovo, Suto Orizari, Cair and Cento. The Interior Ministry said they found an automatic gun, four pistols, a bomb, eight bullets for "black arrow" rifle, six bullets for grenade launcher, six frames for automatic gun, ten camouflage uniforms, seven tactical vests, a vehicles, around 10.000 euro, computers and cell phones.
Interior Minister Gordana Jankuloska said Tuesday that main motive most probably was their idea of killing in the Radical Islam and the goal was to create feeling of fear in wider public.
"The motive is their idea, belief and following the Radical Islam, which is dangerous for believers of Christianity, Muslim religion", Jankuloska said adding that some of the arrested persons fought in Afghanistan and Pakistan against NATO troops.
She said that when it comes to terrorism the victims are not always directly connected with the perpetrators or with the motive due to which the criminal act is committed.
"We have suspected that in this case it is about murder where victims are not directly connected with any of the perpetrators however the intention of the criminal act was to create feeling of insecurity and fear in wider population", Jankuloska said.
Asked by the journalists to give assessment on security situation in Macedonia and whether the country is facing with danger of Radical Islam and other possible terrorist attacks, Jankuloska reminded that Macedonia is part of the global coalition for peace and by number of citizens making it fifth according to participation of ARM peacekeepers in mission in Afghanistan.
"And by this the Republic of Macedonia is on the side of the countries that can be potential target of Radical Islamists. We are not underestimating the situation in not a single moment and we are not excluding possibility of Radical movement of individuals or groups. Members of police, Security and Counterintelligence Bureau and Bureau for Public Security are closely monitoring the situation, we act preventively and repressively because nothing should change the way we live, in peace and coexistence of all citizens in Macedonia," Jankuloska said, adding that situation is closely monitored, there are no serious changes however this should not leave us relaxed because it is obvious that followers of Radical Islam are prepared to most gruesome criminal acts and murderers, as it was the one in Smilkovci village.
Regarding the question whether this group is behind some larger terrorist group or acted according to someone's order, Jankuloska said that additional information will be presented in the following period.
Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski was informed about the police action "monster" who visited the Ministry of Interior.
Jankuloska thanked all citizens who gave useful information, especially all policemen who worked constantly and to media that reported correctly in connection to the event.
On April 13, Filip Slavkovski, Aleksandar Nakevski, Cvetanco Acevski and Kire Trickovski, namely in their late teens and twenties, as well as Borce Stefkovski – who was a 45-year-old man, were brutally murdered on the shore near the village of Smilkovci. They were killed by automatic weapons at close range.
One day later police confirmed that "Opel Omega" vehicle found 10km from the murder site was used in the crime near Skopje village of Smilkovci. ik/sk/9:38
http://www.mia.com.mk/default.aspx?vId=93496943&lId=2

[Zarkus]

[Zarkus]

[zero11]

Good result.

@kotemore

Nobody is stupid to take on the Albanians outside of Albania while they are protected by EU/US, once the balance of power changes there will almost certainly be war.

[Zarkus]

This whole thing is a setup. Those arrested are innocent. The whole thing was masterminded by serbian and macedonian secret services to make the Albanians look bad.

How do you now that buddy!? You have some inside info from the Police... ore the jihadist?
How guilty should they look... on what did you base your opinion they look innocent? The Macedonians nor the Serbs don't have to do anything to make the Albanians look bad, they're doing that job themselves (yourself) quite well.

The albanians fought the wars at the end of 20th and beginning of 21st century for nothing. They are still oppressed by the evil slavs that took their countries.

"Evil Slavs"!? "Their Countries"!? What ever your smoking dude... send me some.
Your being apologetic for some jihadist murderer scumbags with links to Al-Qaeda... what does that make you?

[zg18]

@Zarkus, Crvenobradi je Srbin , Redbeard is a Serb.... he was trying to be sarcastic.

[Zarkus]

Maybe it is dumb taking a chunk of FYROM. I don't know. This is very reminiscent of how the shyt in Kosovo started. We all know how that escalated and ended.

Why shouldn't the Pan-Albanian movement try the same thing in FYROM? I don't see what EU will do to Albania or Kosovo or whichever other Albanian state comes from the FYROM chunk if FYROM looses a part of it's territory. Not allow it's joining in EU? FFS why? Have EU officials said they will not allow joining of Kosovo, even though they proclaimed independence unilateraly? And let's not forget 250.000 Serbs left Kosovo after 1999 war. Why would they do that if there wasn't any pressure from the Albanians? I don't see EU breaking a sweat over that. They don't care.

The only way to diffuse ethnic tensions in our neighborhood it seems is to allow the same thing that happened in Kosovo. One side wants out and a piece of the cake, other wants into EU. No problem, the first takes a chunk out, the other gets the EU after it let's that chunk go.

It's clear your talking out of your ass man. The only way you could take out a "chunk" out of anything in the Balkans is thru war... a war the Albanians (where ever they live) can NOT wage. Not without being kicked in their teeth once and for all. Wake up and smell the coffee, you got lucky once with Kosovo (like you had a chance without NATO's assistance, pf)... you tried and failed the same in Macedonia in 2001, and if the Albanian minority tries the same again... they'll either and up like the group that was eliminated in Brodec a couple of years ago... or like these scumbags in the pics above.

However, there is a way that would make everybody in the Balkans happy. The Albanians could finally live in one country.. the "Evil Slavs" would keep their lands and be happy, the international community satisfied. Now, that could take some work and some time... but i think it would be worth it and would bring some well deserved peace in this region for the times to come.

[Zarkus]

@Zarkus, Crvenobradi je Srbin , Redbeard is a Serb.... he was trying to be sarcastic.

Well he's not doing a good job at that, is he?

Either way, what happend to Kosovo is a closed book.
No matter of the apetites (or where they originate from) that ocure in the Balkans from time to time, that train has left the station.
It's eye for an eye... tooth for tooth from now on. Nobody gets a free ride... you have to pay for it.

[KoTeMoRe]

I have asked myself the same, but I think in the end that EU just wants peace and quiet. How that peace and quiet are achieved is not relevant. If it means ethnicly clear territories, I think EU will go with that. The best option is for all to get along on all territories, but let's not delude ourselves, we have all shown (by that I mean ex yugoslav ethnic populations) how much we care about that. There are ethnic tensions all over the Balkans, some miniscule, some big.



Maybe it is dumb taking a chunk of FYROM. I don't know. This is very reminiscent of how the shyt in Kosovo started. We all know how that escalated and ended.

Why shouldn't the Pan-Albanian movement try the same thing in FYROM? I don't see what EU will do to Albania or Kosovo or whichever other Albanian state comes from the FYROM chunk if FYROM looses a part of it's territory. Not allow it's joining in EU? FFS why? Have EU officials said they will not allow joining of Kosovo, even though they proclaimed independence unilateraly? And let's not forget 250.000 Serbs left Kosovo after 1999 war. Why would they do that if there wasn't any pressure from the Albanians? I don't see EU breaking a sweat over that. They don't care.

The only way to diffuse ethnic tensions in our neighborhood it seems is to allow the same thing that happened in Kosovo. One side wants out and a piece of the cake, other wants into EU. No problem, the first takes a chunk out, the other gets the EU after it let's that chunk go.

Albania AFAIC has not anschlussed Kosovo. We cannot do it, and pretty much we will not do it. It took nearly a decade to have a modicum of peaceful Albania. What do you think we would do with these folks. Not speaking of Albanophones as a whole, but these pricks? These morons will be a pain in the arse no matter where they are, until their "Muslim" world has been implemented.

So what happened with Kosovo? We have no plans to get anyone in, unless some one tossed on Albania 10 times of the US National Debt. And even if some one showered us in monkey money we could not get on expansion mode. There are so many reforms that would have to be implemented with the other Albanophones that would take a real effort, that we really are not up to the task to, right now.

Btw: There is no will in Albania to get all expansive, and there was none when the Kosovars started their little gig. I suppose after the 1997 chaos, the ones among the Albanian circles of power that bet on a lengthy insurgency in Kosmet were overrun by NATO's plans to bomb the **** out of Yugoslavia.

We want Kosovars to be happy and well and solve what ever issue they have with Serbia before any mention of a single people.

On a side note, the lecture you have on the region is critically emotive. I do not consider the region (North Albania, Kosovo, Southern Serbia) being ****e to war. I do consider that region being worth a collective action of police in getting rid of common problems (criminality, trafficking, money laundering. While that might not appease the Serbians, it might at least show them WE care about their concerns.

[valtrex]

KoTeMoRe, Albanian Muslims are mostly Bektashi (what the Turks and Arabs call Alevi/Alawi), aren't they?
When did their Islamic radicalisation start and who were/are responsible for their Islamic radicalisation?

[Mordoror]

KoTeMoRe, Albanian Muslims are mostly Bektashi (what the Turks and Arabs call Alevi/Alawi), aren't they?
When did their Islamic radicalisation start and who were/are responsible for their Islamic radicalisation?

Retorical question ?.

Same case than in Bosnia and Caucasus
*Look at our best western allies, KSA, Qatar and UAE"

Radical islam came from the void of solid and stable state structures during and/or after the wars, thanks to funds and imams imported from the evil tryptic i listed above

[KoTeMoRe]

Bektashi muslims are your typical Albanian muslims, we have a couple of twelver Shias. Kosovars are spread among Sunni and Suffi. Macedonians follow the same pattern.

Now where does that radicalization comes from...I'll point out our Bosnian friends and their Saudi and Pakistani sponsors. We had issues with Saudis since 1995 when a series of schools opened in Albania and imams started to appear in the middle of nowhere. It is simply the backblast of a very shortsighted policy of opening the doors to all kinds of money. As of late we have had more luck with more people coming from Turkey to teach and implement Islam for those who wish to follow up religion. But again, religious attitudes in Albania are awkwardly schizophrenic. As you know I come from an area that is split among converted Muslims and old Orthodox. Most treat both holidays and practices as folklore. Some take them as family occasions. Just a good occasion to stop caring about money, work you know.

These people, these are brainwashed material. These most often ricochet from old diaspora communities with a mindset that has nothing in common with the rest. Furthermore, the practice of Islam in the region was treated as a last stand against Slavization. It is unfortunate, especially given the very flag they call theirs and our common history regarding Islam. But hey, dumbfvcks, will be always dumbfvcks.

You can go through the south of Albania and see for yourself. Religion is just a primer. The North has a more cohesive group of Sunnis and Catholics, maybe far more nationalist than the south.

What mister M. said. There has been a great sin committed that will haunt us collectively. Letting foreigners deal with our crap.

[valtrex]

Bektashi muslims are your typical Albanian muslims, we have a couple of twelver Shias. Kosovars are spread among Sunni and Suffi. Macedonians follow the same pattern.

Now where does that radicalization comes from...I'll point out our Bosnian friends and their Saudi and Pakistani sponsors. We had issues with Saudis since 1995 when a series of schools opened in Albania and imams started to appear in the middle of nowhere. It is simply the backblast of a very shortsighted policy of opening the doors to all kinds of money. As of late we have had more luck with more people coming from Turkey to teach and implement Islam for those who wish to follow up religion. But again, religious attitudes in Albania are awkwardly schizophrenic. As you know I come from an area that is split among converted Muslims and old Orthodox. Most treat both holidays and practices as folklore. Some take them as family occasions. Just a good occasion to stop caring about money, work you know.

These people, these are brainwashed material. These most often ricochet from old diaspora communities with a mindset that has nothing in common with the rest. Furthermore, the practice of Islam in the region was treated as a last stand against Slavization. It is unfortunate, especially given the very flag they call theirs and our common history regarding Islam. But hey, dumbfvcks, will be always dumbfvcks.

You can go through the south of Albania and see for yourself. Religion is just a primer. The North has a more cohesive group of Sunnis and Catholics, maybe far more nationalist than the south.

What mister M. said. There has been a great sin committed that will haunt us collectively. Letting foreigners deal with our crap.

Well I know Muslim Albanians (Tosks from the S mostly) who are not at all religious, they even mock their religion; having this in mind, I find it peculiar (and terrifying at the same moment) that a few hundred km N from the border, Salafist jihadism is present.

Retorical question ?.

Same case than in Bosnia and Caucasus
*Look at our best western allies, KSA, Qatar and UAE"

Radical islam came from the void of solid and stable state structures during and/or after the wars, thanks to funds and imams imported from the evil tryptic i listed above

Not at all, it was a sincere question.
Thank you (both of you) for your answers

[Al-Bundy]

As Kotemore said, the biggest stupidity ever to be allowed in Albania the last 20 years was to open the doors to the Saudis, Pakistanis ... arab money, arab preachers. The moment an arab preacher started his "seminars" you had youngsters using religious insults the very next week or expressions "i don't hang out with kaurs". The poison is still being spread IMO and lot of damage has been done.
I would disagree with Katemore though that turks are better ones. They might be better in comparison with the arabs but still bad.

There is also the other side of the coin where many have converted to Christianity. I used to have many muslims relatives through marriages to my blood relatives but now i have none.

If Albanians are religious 1 from 1 to 10 scale, Kosovars are 5 and Fyrom Albanians are 20. The are too radicalized IMO. Don't know many Albanian that want to be in the same neighborhood with them.

back to topic
Doesn't mean these people that got arrested are guilty. It has first to be proven and given the history of Fyrom with Pakistani immigrants executed and presented as evidence of Albanian link with the axis of evil, i will wait for third party(EU/Interpol...) conclusions.