Reply With Quoteatleast be respectfull.Originally Posted by Nirvana
Pakistan army should worry more about taliban and Alqaida blasting bombs under their Ass than ambitions of ICBM...
or maybe china has sent a fresh lot of dummy missiles painted green ICMB for the dumb ass pakis
"Push This Button for NewDelhi... This For Newyork"
atleast be respectfull.
the report which has been debated and refuted on pak forums has been opened just to make fun of pakistan and some senior members [by age] also jump in the bandwagon rather than encouraging some quality discussions
this 'dude' is most probably the person who was airchief in the 65 war ..Just curious, Is this dude still ALIVE in Pakistan?
pakistan has acted responsibly & has not tested a similar missile in a tit for tat fashion ..as its only enemy [in the eyes of most pakistanis] is already completely covered since the 2004 test of shaheen2 --- the first nuclear tests and missiles tests in the indo-pak scene were not conducted by pakistan-- pakistan is being dragged into this arms race
ragarding the chest thumping, i dont care if the 1st generation of pak missiles [1990s era] were ''imported'' ..similarly i dont care if different parts of indian angi5 missle are imported or not [reports being discussed on many fora]... as only the results and achieving the set goals matter in the longrun ---i dont care if sabre2 fighter was a modified mig21/mig33 clone.as the goal is/was jf17 blk1/2..similarly i dont care if lca is a mirage clone... no one needs to waste time reinventing the wheel
its quite amusing how some indian teenage members criticize pakistan and pakistanis either way --- It was shocking to see so much blind hatred by some members towards pakistan here ... and i thought people make a pov based on studying the stances and the history behind the adoption of those stances by different opposing countries ------ If you see varoius forums , i have myself posted the above video on multiple fora and have recieved positive views from pakistanis, indicating a very practical change in the outlook of middle class pakistanis.. it should be noted that this video is recorded and aired by a pakistani channel again indicating the level of tolerance in most sectors of pakistan... the facts which never are projected in western forums
just to give you some pov from the other side of the coin and most pakistanis dont consider isreal an enemy as we dont share borders .. i am talking about middle class people like me ...
Last edited by ANTIBODY; 04-29-2012 at 05:38 PM.
Asghar Khan retired six weeks before the start of the 1965 War. He resigned because he was not taken into confidence when the authorization for Operation Gibaraltar was officially given though he was the Chief of the Pakistani Airforce.
Tit for tat for what ? The biggest enemy of Pakistan nowadays (in the eyes of Pakistanis) is not India anymore, it is the United States (according to various opinion polls). And no the United States is not covered by any Pakistani missile, therefore all this talk of Pakistani ICBMs. As for your statement that Pakistan acted "responsibly" I think most of the responsible nations on this planet know about Pakistan acting "responsibly'.pakistan has acted responsibly & has not tested a similar missile in a tit for tat fashion ..as its only enemy [in the eyes of most pakistanis] is already completely covered since the 2004 test of shaheen2 ---
Pakistan being dragged into an arms race ? Are you kidding me ? Here is a statement by Asghar Khan (the former Pakistani Airchief)the first nuclear tests and missiles tests in the indo-pak scene were not conducted by pakistan-- pakistan is being dragged into this arms race
In the last over 60 years, India has never attacked Pakistan, as it cannot afford it. Indians know well, if Pakistan is destroyed, they will be the next target... It was made our problem that one day India would invade us. But we did so four times and the first attack was on Kashmir, where Maharaja was not prepared to accede to India for he wanted to join Pakistan and waited for this for 21 days. Indian forces came to East-Pakistan when people were being slaughtered there. Moreover, again at Kargil, Indian never mounted an assault...
As far as the Nuclear tests are concerned, before conducting these tests Pakistan was India's headache but after the tests it became the world's headache. And this headache will only worsen as time goes on.
It is an established fact that Pakistan got its missile technology from North Korea in exchange for Nuclear technology with the Chinese co-ordinating the whole deal between the two.ragarding the chest thumping, i dont care if the 1st generation of pak missiles [1990s era] were ''imported'' ..similarly i dont care if different parts of indian angi5 missle are imported or not [reports being discussed on many fora]... as only the results and achieving the set goals matter in the longrun ---i dont care if sabre2 fighter was a modified mig21/mig33 clone.as the goal is/was jf17 blk1/2..similarly i dont care if lca is a mirage clone... no one needs to waste time reinventing the wheel
So do you agree with what Asghar Khan is saying ?its quite amusing how some indian teenage members criticize pakistan and pakistanis either way --- It was shocking to see so much blind hatred by some members towards pakistan here ... and i thought people make a pov based on studying the stances and the history behind the adoption of those stances by different opposing countries ------ If you see varoius forums , i have myself posted the above video on multiple fora and have recieved positive views from pakistanis, indicating a very practical change in the outlook of middle class pakistanis.. it should be noted that this video is recorded and aired by a pakistani channel again indicating the level of tolerance in most sectors of pakistan... the facts which never are projected in western forums
All I can I say that the Pakistani middle class as of today has been compelled by their rulers to be in a constant state of denial and mired in conspiracy theories, some of which border on absolute ridiculous.just to give you some pov from the other side of the coin and most pakistanis dont consider isreal an enemy as we dont share borders .. i am talking about middle class people like me ...
''The biggest enemy of Pakistan nowadays (in the eyes of Pakistanis) is not India anymore, it is the United States (according to various opinion polls).''
i am sure indians would like to project this misleading sentiment on behalf of pakistanis. pakistan has no power projection aspirations and neither do its arms purchases/tests reflect that ... its funny how you post all the anti pak threads on western forums and then, reply on behalf of pakistanis , as if you have lived there and have complete grasp of the ground realities being faced by the pakistanis ,while being completely unbiased in the process -- pakistan has a weak corrupt gov- yes ... however intelligence , foresight among the masses is not restricted only to the indians
the lower socioeconomic class in pakistan dont care of these international hiccups as they have more pressing matters like putting food on the table -- and the upper middle class is corrupt whereas the technocrats make up the middle class and their awareness is far more than what you imagine
Last edited by ANTIBODY; 04-30-2012 at 08:29 AM.
This is exactly the problem when I try to get into debate with someone who I assume has some knowledge about his country. You accuse me of projecting a misleading statement but I dont make statements until and unless I can back them up. Below is a report from Al-Jazeera about Gallup poll in Pakistan according to which 59% Pakistanis consider the US as their biggest threat whereas only 18% consider India as the biggest threat. This is from 2009 and relations have only gone downhill since then.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2...857878664.html
http://blogs.*******.com/pakistan/20...ans-enemy-no1/
What about its whole "Strategic Depth" obsession and where it has landed it now ?pakistan has no power projection aspirations and neither do its arms purchases/tests reflect that ...
I post anti Pakistani threads ??? I just post news from accredited international sources. And yes I have a special interest in Pakistan, which should not be surprising since my country has fought 4 wars with Pakistan.its funny how you post all the anti pak threads on western forums and then, reply on behalf of pakistanis as if you have lived there and have complete grasp of the ground realities while being completely unbiased in the process --
I dont post on behalf of Pakistanis, I just give my view from my understanding of the situation. As an example I knew that Asghar Khan resigned before the 1965 war a fact which you were not aware of.
No comments.pakistan has a weak corrupt gov- yes ... however intelligence , foresight among the masses is not restricted only to the shining indians
Again I ask you, do you agree with what Mr.Asghar Khan said ?
Dear friend,
1.Looking through the whole thread its difficult to find one single "hate" post. People have been posting whatever Pakistan has been portraying at the international stage.
2.Good to know that the outlook of middle class Pakistanis has been changing recently [taking your word for it] and hope it is a positive one for the whole world.
3.The factual thing regarding changing point of view of public in Pakistan as seen by the world is
a. its limited to very small group of people in Pakistan
b. they have no say in the working of Govt of Pakistan or its [rouge] Armed Forces and Intelligence Services
c. they are in no position to change the situation [b] poses
d. this group of people seem to be decreasing in strength day by day.
I can't make this any simpler my friend. This is the best explanation of things you have seen on this thread.
I would be very happy if the events in the future prove what I have just posted wrong.
Till then the world is not at liberty to go by words of a lone sane Pakistani on a Military Forum.
Source, please.
Work of Planeman..
There are many results, Few of them:
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/pakist...ile/index.html
http://www.carnegieendowment.org/pdf/npp/Pakistan and North Korea.pdf
http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/crs/rl30427.pdfWhile it says it is not in an arms race with India, Pakistan has reacted to India’s missile programs with its own and has tested nuclear devices following India’s
nuclear tests. It has received extensive help from China and North Korea in developing and producing missiles. China also helped Pakistan with the
development of nuclear weapons. The Hatf-2 and 3 are solid fuel SRBMs that are probably based on the Chinese M-11 and M-9 respectively. The Ghauri-I and
Ghauri-II are reportedly based on (or copies of) North Korea’s Nodong or even its Taepo Dong-1 missile.
http://www.cfr.org/nonlethal-weapons/nonproliferation-pakistan-network/p7751"Pakistan is absolutely the biggest and most important illicit exporter of nuclear technology in the history of the nuclear age," says Jim Walsh, executive director of the Managing the Atom Project at Harvard's John F. Kennedy School of Government.
Pakistan traded nuclear technology to North Korea in exchange for ballistic missile technology, says Robert W. Nelson, the MacArthur fellow in science and technology at the Council on Foreign Relations.
http://www.nti.org/country-profiles/...korea/nuclear/In the summer of 2002, U.S. intelligence reportedly discovered evidence of transfers of HEU technology and/or materials from Pakistan in exchange for ballistic missiles. Later, in early 2004, it was revealed that Pakistani nuclear scientist Dr. A. Q. Khan had sold gas-centrifuge technology to North Korea, Libya and Iran. Compared to plutonium-production facilities, the HEU production facilities that North Korea was suspected of developing are difficult to detect.
US Congressional Reporthttp://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/30781.pdfWeapons of Mass Destruction: Trade Between North Korea and Pakistan
Also you can go through the Carnegie Endowment Report
http://www.carnegieendowment.org/pdf/npp/Pakistan and North Korea.pdf
http://www.armscontrol.org/act/2003_...anctions_may03
These are interesting and I have seen them before. However, none of them prove any "facts" that China coordinated the deal between the two. I specifically want to see information that China coordinated and fostered a relationship between North Korea and Pakistan.
Let them find a Julian Assange for that.. And those countries don't need to communicate through lines, they share borders.. India Strong...!
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