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Thread: Anti-bullying speaker Dan Savage blasts Christian teens who walked out of lecture

  1. #46
    Μολὼν λαβέ Hollis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by That One Guy View Post
    Don't many American Christians often say that the bible mandates intolerance toward gays, amongst others?
    Quote Originally Posted by That One Guy View Post
    ^ Well, it sounds like he's got a chip on his shoulder. Wonder how it got there. I won't deny it though, I don't have much sympathy with all the recent talk about how how hard put upon Christians are these days; they've been dishing it out for centuries, and now they're whining because they're finally getting a little blowback.

    Seems like you are playing a game. Look at your first post, (gee I am so innocent, I don't have a bias here.) Then look at this post. I guess you don't see your bigotry. How are people today responsible and same for people 500 yrs, 1000, yrs, 1500 yrs ago. Do you realize there are not the same people. **********ity was way older than Christianity, are you going to say the **********'s today are the same as 5,000 yrs ago and are responsible for that ever any ********** done since then?

    BTW, with your other quotes, I doubt if you really know much about those three religions, I doubt you have read their religious canons. Probably just picked up a piece here or there to suit your own bias.

    I would suggest reading the forum rules. If your anti-religion and people who have a religion, I would say go to Arlington Cemetery and walk among the graves.

    People are individuals, It is fallacy in logic to paint the whole group for the action of one person.

  2. #47
    Senior Member West Texican's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by That One Guy View Post
    Don't many American Christians often say that the bible mandates intolerance toward gays, amongst others?
    Jesus teaches tolerance and compassion for all, including gays. It is so obvious, how could you be fooled otherwise?

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    LOL anti-bullying

    Oh yes,try to get rid of something so hardwired into human nature.

  4. #49
    No Good Bloody Seppo California Joe's Avatar
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    I have yet to meet an actual ******* bully that is abusing other kids because Jesus told him to.

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    Μολὼν λαβέ Hollis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by California Joe View Post
    I have yet to meet an actual ******* bully that is abusing other kids because Jesus told him to.

    I think your adjective sort of describes it all and why they do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hollis View Post
    Seems like you are playing a game. Look at your first post, (gee I am so innocent, I don't have a bias here.) Then look at this post. I guess you don't see your bigotry. How are people today responsible and same for people 500 yrs, 1000, yrs, 1500 yrs ago. Do you realize there are not the same people. **********ity was way older than Christianity, are you going to say the **********'s today are the same as 5,000 yrs ago and are responsible for that ever any ********** done since then?
    IMO, it is likely that there is some degree of bigotry in hearts of most people, and I didn't claim to be any different. I believe it's best to not be in denial about that. But, I have never advocated that any groups to which I don't belong should not have equal rights. Christians I have met in person have argued that to me. That is a fact, and it didn't happen 5000 years ago. Others have related similar, personal experiences to me. I'm sorry if it makes you uncomfortable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollis View Post
    BTW, with your other quotes, I doubt if you really know much about those three religions, I doubt you have read their religious canons. Probably just picked up a piece here or there to suit your own bias.
    So we should both get doctorates in theology before we have any opinions about religion? All I said is that it wouldn't surprise me if Judiaism, Christianity and Islam have some shared doctrines because they have the same root, which is also a fact. Regardless, I never claimed expertise, and I shouldn't evem have to refute what you're saying.

    "Abrahamic religions or Abrahamitic religions are the monotheistic faiths emphasizing and tracing their common origin to Abraham[1] or recognizing a spiritual tradition identified with him.[

    The three major Abrahamic religions are, in chronological order of founding, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religions

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollis View Post
    I would suggest reading the forum rules.
    I appreciate that this forum is here. Hopefully it will continue to tolerate diverse opinions as long as those opinions are not expressed in a hateful or abusive way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollis View Post
    If your anti-religion and people who have a religion, I would say go to Arlington Cemetery and walk among the graves.

    People are individuals, It is fallacy in logic to paint the whole group for the action of one person.
    I'm not anti-religion. I really don't much care what people believe in regard to that. It only becomes a concern to me when the religious use their beliefs as a basis on which to disparage other groups or advocate their disenfranchisement. And yes, they often seem to have quotations from scripture handy when they do this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by California Joe View Post
    I have yet to meet an actual ******* bully that is abusing other kids because Jesus told him to.
    This.

    As anyone who has been to high school can observe, the kid with his nose in a bible (you know who I'm talking about) isn't the one bullying gay kids. He's the one who gets called "Jesus freak" by the same people who call the gay kids ******s.

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    Μολὼν λαβέ Hollis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by That One Guy View Post
    I'm not anti-religion. I really don't much care what people believe in regard to that. It only becomes a concern to me when the religious use their beliefs as a basis on which to disparage other groups or advocate their disenfranchisement. And yes, they often seem to have quotations from scripture handy when they do this.
    No different than others, religion also falls under philosophy. It is in part where a person gets their world view from. Where else do you expect a person to use as a basis to disparage other groups, those groups do the same thing except for what they choose as a basis. The only commonality with a one Christian over another Christian from regardless of what time in history they are from, is that they call themselves Christians.

    As far as he Abrahamic stuff, there is more to it.

    Like bullies, the can choose what ever idea, philosophy, religion, etc to justify their bullying, people can manipulate, alter, what ever text to justify their own brand of bias/bigotry. You do know paraphrasing is a pretty popular pastime. If you want to know what the Christians on this forum think, ask them. People can only speak for themselves. As you found out, the Christians on this forum have a different view than the ones that you mentioned.

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    Μολὼν λαβέ Hollis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noons86. View Post
    This.

    As anyone who has been to high school can observe, the kid with his nose in a bible (you know who I'm talking about) isn't the one bullying gay kids. He's the one who gets called "Jesus freak" by the same people who call the gay kids ******s.
    That is probably 99.9% true. IMHO

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    Senior Member IraGlacialis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noons86. View Post
    As anyone who has been to high school can observe, the kid with his nose in a bible (you know who I'm talking about) isn't the one bullying gay kids. He's the one who gets called "Jesus freak" by the same people who call the gay kids ******s.
    That is true.
    However, as I stated before, from personal experience I have seen dogmatic types view bullying from the sidelines and vocally justify it either in a religious or social Darwinistic manner. They may not be the ones personally bullying the kid, but they definitely make the atmosphere less helpful.
    Usually though, these guys aren't the aforementioned "Bible readers" (those ones are usually quiet and tend to be quite well-mannered). Instead they are loud outgoing-types that gravitate towards social circles (a good chunk of the time, nobody really likes them), and in the end, for all their holier-than-thou platitudes, they tend to be less-than-reverent in their actions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hollis View Post
    No different than others, religion also falls under philosophy. It is in part where a person gets their world view from. Where else do you expect a person to use as a basis to disparage other groups, those groups do the same thing except for what they choose as a basis. The only commonality with a one Christian over another Christian from regardless of what time in history they are from, is that they call themselves Christians.

    As far as he Abrahamic stuff, there is more to it.

    Like bullies, the can choose what ever idea, philosophy, religion, etc to justify their bullying, people can manipulate, alter, what ever text to justify their own brand of bias/bigotry. You do know paraphrasing is a pretty popular pastime. If you want to know what the Christians on this forum think, ask them. People can only speak for themselves. As you found out, the Christians on this forum have a different view than the ones that you mentioned.
    I agree that those seeking a higher justification for being douche bags can and will find it in more than one place. It's probably a human problem at its base.

    Also, it's true that its easy to find Christians who are, or were, extraordinarily laudable in a humanitarian sense. There are others who are simply very decent and tend to their own business.

    My earlier statement about "blowback" was an over-reaching generalization, which can sometimes be difficult to avoid when not resorting to full-blown e-prime.

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    Senior Member liberal cl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by That One Guy View Post
    Nah, more like "what goes around comes around."
    Oh so a tit for tat ethic justifies name-calling in an anti-bullying conference. Not particularly mature of Savage.

    IMO, it could be argued that they exist together somewhere on the same continuum—that commonplace human tendency to involve oneself, uninvited, in the personal business of others, and to ***** with them.
    Gay marriage literally has nothing to do with "bullying" in schools. Kids can't even marry, let alone gay marry...

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    Quote Originally Posted by liberal cl View Post
    Oh so a tit for tat ethic justifies name-calling in an anti-bullying conference. Not particularly mature of Savage.
    Ooo, on one specific occasion he called some people a name; that's pretty drastic stuff. I'm sure neither you or I have ever done that. I don't think it's necessarily justified, but if he was expressing resentment as a gay person toward SOME Christians because SOME Christians constantly rail against gays, then I find it somewhat understandable. What part of that aren't you getting? Tell me, do you actually deny that there are Christians who have made anti-**********ity one of their major agenda items?

    Another thing, when it comes to "tit-for-tat," can you please tell me what "tat" is, how to get it, and where I can exchange it for that other thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by liberal cl View Post

    Gay marriage literally has nothing to do with "bullying" in schools. Kids can't even marry, let alone gay marry...
    Like I said, IMO the desire to deprive a class of citizens equal rights may very well be related to bullying. The way it works is simple; you don't like someone or some group because they're different from you, so you ***** with them. I cannot help it if you don't agree.

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    So he resents some christians but takes it out on any he comes across?

    Sure sounds like a Bigoted *****, or do you believe he was in fear of those teens?

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    Senior Member IraGlacialis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by That One Guy View Post
    Ooo, on one specific occasion he called some people a name; that's pretty drastic stuff. I'm sure neither you or I have ever done that.
    Not in what is supposed to be a relatively professional setting against kids that are definitely not "his own size" (in terms of age and the like, not physical size).

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