Your truly are the most ignorant fool ever.If Obama ever stopped short your nose would be in his lungs
Ignorance is the devil. just how I see it.
Hows it going Lucifer?
Originally Posted by Createdeemcee
So Obama gets no credit at all?
Originally Posted by LineDoggie
Give him some credit for giving his team (McRaven, Panetta et al) the go-ahead to actually perform the raid. It is entirely possible that a different president might have just sent in the bombers. He might not have actually gone in and shot bin Laden but even his decision to say "yes" is worthy of some merit.
But just as much as Obama is using the successful raid as political fodder, so is Mr Zinke, who is after all now a politician. (And a Republican one at that). And why can't he use it as political fodder? Public Enemy No.1 was killed whilst he was president after all.
He deserves credit for it along with everyone else involved. It was a well done from the top on down.
but actively seeking credit for it or using it as a wedge issue is...less than classy.
Let's get serious LineDoggie. Mcraven does not have the power of authority to invade foreign countries. Especially considering that the house was so close to a Pakistani base.
Originally Posted by LineDoggie
I agree it's a low move by Obama for basing his campaign on that event, but at the same time he did make a ballsy call.
Did Ike or MacArthur have that authority from FDR? Yup. Obama signed off on raid if OBL could be found .
Originally Posted by RangerChallenge
Admiral Mcraven had to get into the weeds and find actionable intel, to coordinate specifics. It was Mcravens head if it failed, just as any failure hasn’t affected the President involved. When Son Tay turned into a dry hole, Nixon didn’t suffer for it
LD, lets get real here. Carter got burned because of the US hostages in Iran, and the crash at Desert One. Reagan got a bump in popularity after Grenada. Bush I was riding high right after Desert Storm, and Clinton most definitely got blamed for Somalia.
Originally Posted by LineDoggie
If Bush had been the President to "catch" Osama in December 2001 at Tora Bora, you can bet your ass that he would have used it in his reelection campaign (we had the capability to capture him then, NATO commanders were just unwilling to go after him because they thought they would be violating Pakistani territorial sovereignty when they saw him fleeing 2 km from Delta Force positions [see Daulton Fury's account of the battle, it matches up with what captured Taliban fighters present at the battle have stated]. 9 1/2 years late we violate Pakistani territory to finally capture him ). No one running for office would pass up any opportunity to show what successful things the or their administration has done in order to get more votes. Obama is no exception, and EVERY president before him has done this when running for reelection.
Oh, and LineDoggie, an order to violate Pakistani, or for that matter, any countries sovereign territory would have to come from the presidents office himself. Admiral McRaven may have had the authority to decide whether to conduct the mission or not, but he would not have been able to make that decision without the president giving him the ability to make that decision.
17 something you dont know squat about what a President Might have done.
Originally Posted by Impartial Bias
Carter lost due to a wide variety of reasons, not just the Hostages: Malaise index(that he invented), Rabbit attack, Axe attack in the DMZ killing US Officers, threatening to pull out of South Korea, Pardoning Vietnam Draft Dodgers, Billy taking money from Gaddafi, talking Nukes with Amy, Energy crisis, etc. Desert One was seen as a try to get the Hostages back that fault wasnt in Carter but the everyservice needs a slice of the pie.
Originally Posted by Dominique
Reagans bump was offset by Beirut and 241 dead Marines as I remember it.
Bush 41 get reelected? thought not
Clinton was reelected after Mogadishu
So basically you're throwing away my whole argument, again, based on my age.
Originally Posted by LineDoggie
And yet you talk of ignorance.
I think the fact that we see politicians slandering each other like ten year old kids on the playground when trying to get reelected shows pretty well what extents they would go to to promote themselves (oh, hey look, politicians aren't the only ones that do it either *cough* LineDoggie). Oh, and Bush used the fact that America hadn't been attacked again since 9/11 and his "successful" war on terror (everyone remember "Mission Accomplished" on the Abraham Lincoln, and how he took credit for that?) as reasons he should be reelected in 2004, so yeah, I'm pretty sure if Osama was caught when he was president, he would have used that in his reelection campaign.
Ok Clauswitz, explain how the targeting was done? how were the parameters of the mission set. who set them? How much leeway does a Special Operations Commander get in deciding operations?
Originally Posted by Impartial Bias
You were 8 years old in 2003 He gave credit to those Serving. You dont remember as you were probably trying to figure out if Bobsaur or Pikachu was a better card.
You show me where then President Bush lauds himself
Admiral Kelly, Captain Card, officers and sailors of the USS Abraham Lincoln, my fellow Americans: Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the Battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed. And now our coalition is engaged in securing and reconstructing that country.
In this battle, we have fought for the cause of liberty, and for the peace of the world. Our nation and our coalition are proud of this accomplishment — yet it is you, the members of the United States military, who achieved it. Your courage — your willingness to face danger for your country and for each other — made this day possible. Because of you, our nation is more secure. Because of you, the tyrant has fallen, and Iraq is free.
Operation Iraqi Freedom was carried out with a combination of precision, and speed, and boldness the enemy did not expect, and the world had not seen before. From distant bases or ships at sea, we sent planes and missiles that could destroy an enemy division, or strike a single bunker. Marines and soldiers charged to Baghdad across 350 miles of hostile ground, in one of the swiftest advances of heavy arms in history. You have shown the world the skill and the might of the American Armed Forces.
This nation thanks all of the members of our coalition who joined in a noble cause. We thank the Armed Forces of the United Kingdom, Australia, and Poland, who shared in the hardships of war. We thank all of the citizens of Iraq who welcomed our troops and joined in the liberation of their own country. And tonight, I have a special word for Secretary (Donald) Rumsfeld, for General (Tommy) Franks, and for all the men and women who wear the uniform of the United States: America is grateful for a job well done.
The character of our military through history — the daring of Normandy, the fierce courage of Iwo Jima, the decency and idealism that turned enemies into allies — is fully present in this generation. When Iraqi civilians looked into the faces of our servicemen and women, they saw strength, and kindness, and good will. When I look at the members of the United States military, I see the best of our country, and I am honored to be your commander in chief.
In the images of fallen statues, we have witnessed the arrival of a new era. For a hundred years of war, culminating in the nuclear age, military technology was designed and deployed to inflict casualties on an ever-growing scale. In defeating Nazi Germany and imperial Japan, Allied Forces destroyed entire cities, while enemy leaders who started the conflict were safe until the final days. Military power was used to end a regime by breaking a nation. Today, we have the greater power to free a nation by breaking a dangerous and aggressive regime. With new tactics and precision weapons, we can achieve military objectives without directing violence against civilians. No device of man can remove the tragedy from war. Yet it is a great advance when the guilty have far more to fear from war than the innocent.
In the images of celebrating Iraqis, we have also seen the ageless appeal of human freedom. Decades of lies and intimidation could not make the Iraqi people love their oppressors or desire their own enslavement. Men and women in every culture need liberty like they need food, and water, and air. Everywhere that freedom arrives, humanity rejoices. And everywhere that freedom stirs, let tyrants fear.
We have difficult work to do in Iraq. We are bringing order to parts of that country that remain dangerous. We are pursuing and finding leaders of the old regime, who will be held to account for their crimes. We have begun the search for hidden chemical and biological weapons, and already know of hundreds of sites that will be investigated. We are helping to rebuild Iraq, where the dictator built palaces for himself, instead of hospitals and schools. And we will stand with the new leaders of Iraq as they establish a government of, by, and for the Iraqi people. The transition from dictatorship to democracy will take time, but it is worth every effort. Our coalition will stay until our work is done. And then we will leave — and we will leave behind a free Iraq.
The Battle of Iraq is one victory in a war on terror that began on September the 11th, 2001, and still goes on. That terrible morning, 19 evil men — the shock troops of a hateful ideology — gave America and the civilized world a glimpse of their ambitions. They imagined, in the words of one terrorist, that September the 11th would be the "beginning of the end of America." By seeking to turn our cities into killing fields, terrorists and their allies believed that they could destroy this nation's resolve, and force our retreat from the world. They have failed.
In the Battle of Afghanistan, we destroyed the Taliban, many terrorists, and the camps where they trained. We continue to help the Afghan people lay roads, restore hospitals, and educate all of their children. Yet we also have dangerous work to complete. As I speak, a special operations task force, led by the 82nd Airborne, is on the trail of the terrorists, and those who seek to undermine the free government of Afghanistan. America and our coalition will finish what we have begun.
From Pakistan to the Philippines to the Horn of Africa, we are hunting down al-Qaida killers. Nineteen months ago, I pledged that the terrorists would not escape the patient justice of the United States. And as of tonight, nearly one-half of al-Qaida's senior operatives have been captured or killed.
The liberation of Iraq is a crucial advance in the campaign against terror. We have removed an ally of al-Qaida, and cut off a source of terrorist funding. And this much is certain: No terrorist network will gain weapons of mass destruction from the Iraqi regime, because the regime is no more.
In these 19 months that changed the world, our actions have been focused, and deliberate, and proportionate to the offense. We have not forgotten the victims of September the 11th — the last phone calls, the cold murder of children, the searches in the rubble. With those attacks, the terrorists and their supporters declared war on the United States. And war is what they got.
Our war against terror is proceeding according to principles that I have made clear to all:
Any person involved in committing or planning terrorist attacks against the American people becomes an enemy of this country, and a target of American justice.
Any person, organization, or government that supports, protects, or harbors terrorists is complicit in the murder of the innocent, and equally guilty of terrorist crimes.
Any outlaw regime that has ties to terrorist groups, and seeks or possesses weapons of mass destruction, is a grave danger to the civilized world, and will be confronted.
And anyone in the world, including the Arab world, who works and sacrifices for freedom has a loyal friend in the United States of America.
Our commitment to liberty is America's tradition — declared at our founding, affirmed in Franklin Roosevelt's Four Freedoms, asserted in the Truman Doctrine, and in Ronald Reagan's challenge to an evil empire. We are committed to freedom in Afghanistan, in Iraq, and in a peaceful Palestine. The advance of freedom is the surest strategy to undermine the appeal of terror in the world. Where freedom takes hold, hatred gives way to hope. When freedom takes hold, men and women turn to the peaceful pursuit of a better life. American values, and American interests, lead in the same direction: We stand for human liberty.
The United States upholds these principles of security and freedom in many ways — with all the tools of diplomacy, law enforcement, intelligence, and finance. We are working with a broad coalition of nations that understand the threat, and our shared responsibility to meet it. The use of force has been, and remains, our last resort. Yet all can know, friend and foe alike, that our nation has a mission: We will answer threats to our security, and we will defend the peace.
Our mission continues. Al-Qaida is wounded, not destroyed. The scattered cells of the terrorist network still operate in many nations, and we know from daily intelligence that they continue to plot against free people. The proliferation of deadly weapons remains a serious danger. The enemies of freedom are not idle, and neither are we. Our government has taken unprecedented measures to defend the homeland — and we will continue to hunt down the enemy before he can strike.
The war on terror is not over, yet it is not endless. We do not know the day of final victory, but we have seen the turning of the tide. No act of the terrorists will change our purpose, or weaken our resolve, or alter their fate. Their cause is lost. Free nations will press on to victory.
Other nations in history have fought in foreign lands and remained to occupy and exploit. Americans, following a battle, want nothing more than to return home. And that is your direction tonight. After service in the Afghan and Iraqi theaters of war — after 100,000 miles, on the longest carrier deployment in recent history — you are homeward bound. Some of you will see new family members for the first time — 150 babies were born while their fathers were on the Lincoln. Your families are proud of you, and your nation will welcome you.
We are mindful as well that some good men and women are not making the journey home. One of those who fell, Corporal Jason Mileo, spoke to his parents five days before his death. Jason's father said, "He called us from the center of Baghdad, not to brag, but to tell us he loved us. Our son was a soldier." Every name, every life, is a loss to our military, to our nation, and to the loved ones who grieve. There is no homecoming for these families. Yet we pray, in God's time, their reunion will come.
Those we lost were last seen on duty. Their final act on this earth was to fight a great evil, and bring liberty to others. All of you- all in this generation of our military — have taken up the highest calling of history. You are defending your country, and protecting the innocent from harm. And wherever you go, you carry a message of hope — a message that is ancient, and ever new. In the words of the prophet Isaiah: "To the captives, 'Come out!' and to those in darkness, 'Be free!"'
Thank you for serving our country and our cause. May God bless you all, and may God continue to bless America.
LOL, Pokemon? Really? Grow down old man, never played it.
Originally Posted by LineDoggie
"Nineteen months ago, I pledged that the terrorists would not escape the patient justice of the United States. And as of tonight, nearly one-half of al-Qaida's senior operatives have been captured or killed."
He pledged that terrorists would not escape justice. Not the American people (many of whom, even in the post 9/11 hysteria, didn't support the war. Others, I'm assuming you, were out buying gas masks, food stocks, building bunkers, and buying mountains of teepee while preparing for World War Terrorism... which never came) Keep in mind, this speech was given after the end of the Invasion period of Iraq. At the very moment he was giving this speech with the poorly chosen bigass "Mission Accomplished" banner (oh, and he flew in on a military jet like some sort of faux super hero. Not a very humble move when you're about to deliver a speech that is supposed to be a solemn moment like he is trying to portray in his speech. I must admit, however, he's got some pretty good writers. Just bad judgement and timing.), combat and violence were actually intensifying in Iraq. "Mission Accomplished" isn't an apt phrase to use when you've got a long road of occupation and insurgency ahead of you. And don't say there was no way to know, his advisers and generals told him in the week after the fall of Baghdad (two weeks before this ceremony) that the situation in Iraq was falling apart and would most likely turn into a large armed insurgency. But uhhh, "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!".
"Our government has taken unprecedented measures to defend the homeland — and we will continue to hunt down the enemy before he can strike."
There is so much wrong with this sentence. Inventing non-existent WMD's as a reason to invade a country that had nothing to do with 9/11, and then saying that you've struck down an enemy before he could strike. Just... lol. I'll concede that to Bush and his administration. My cousin lost an arm for this ******* because he wanted have his fun in Iraq, because Afghanistan had been too "easy" of a war and didn't cut it for him. Oh wait... until 2006 at least. And we're still there. And when we leave, what will it have amounted to?
"MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!", indeed.
Milo Drinker of Death
NOt only is that ad in VERY bad taste, but being fronted by the President of the day who strongly preferred the use of cruise missiles over pipehitters is a bit rich.
Originally Posted by liberal cl
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