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Thread: Russia threatens Nato with military strikes over missile defence system.

  1. #121
    Banned user Flamming_Python's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCorruptedOne View Post
    Not exactly an equivalent exchange, is it? I had something a bit more profound in mind. Though I do welcome the initiative, disregarding all compatibility issues and potential discords.
    It offered Gabala before. Back in 2004-2005 it was offering to build a joint missile-shield from the ground up altogether. This is really nothing new.

  2. #122
    Member TheCorruptedOne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hisroyalhighness View Post
    Right not something that could be equally compared, but the underlying gesture I think has potential, don't you agree?
    I do agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flamming_Python View Post
    It offered Gabala before. Back in 2004-2005 it was offering to build a joint missile-shield from the ground up altogether. This is really nothing new.
    I see. The joint missile system would be a bit controversial, especially in the eastern section of NATO, but that's beyond the point at this time.

  3. #123
    Banned user Flamming_Python's Avatar
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    I see. The joint missile system would be a bit controversial, especially in the eastern section of NATO, but that's beyond the point at this time.
    What Eastern section of NATO? Who cares what they think? This was a proposal not for a joint Eastern NATO-Russian system (and most of the Eastern NATO members were yet to even join NATO back then), but for a joint US-Russian missile defense system and such a proposal was made at the beggining of the last decade. You can find material on it if you look through the archives of RIA Novosti, but my own memory serves me well enough. If parts of it were to be based in Poland, Romania, etc... then sure, they would have a say in it - but there is hardly any guarantee that they would have been. More likely, those facilities now being built at great expense in the Czech Republic, Romania, etc... would simply have been built on the basis of Russian facilities & technologies in Russia and the former-USSR region.

  4. #124
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    I can't possibly fathom how an antimissile shield can be any threat to Russia. The Russians should pull their heads out of their ass and deal with their real problems, like, you know, corruption and ****ty economy and all that.

  5. #125
    Member TheCorruptedOne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamming_Python View Post
    What Eastern section of NATO? Who cares what they think? This was a proposal not for a joint Eastern NATO-Russian system (and most of the Eastern NATO members were yet to even join NATO back then), but for a joint US-Russian missile defense system and such a proposal was made at the beggining of the last decade. You can find material on it if you look through the archives of RIA Novosti, but my own memory serves me well enough. If parts of it were to be based in Poland, Romania, etc... then sure, they would have a say in it - but there is hardly any guarantee that they would have been. More likely, those facilities now being built at great expense in the Czech Republic, Romania, etc... would simply have been built on the basis of Russian facilities & technologies in Russia and the former-USSR region.
    Searched the archives (at least in English), found no articles. All I found where the news regarding the same shield, just called differently. I believe the previous proposal, if there ever was one, doesn't compare to the current one (I doubt it was ever seriously considered). Using facilities and antiquated equipment of the long gone Soviet Union is not exactly economical. That is probably the most significant point. While it may seem more cost effective, current solutions would feature off the shelf solutions and would be exactly suitable for the operational needs, as opposed to modifying older equipment. Any former USSR and Russian equipment would need some significant modifications, which may not be quite so cheap in the long run.

  6. #126
    Senior Member kalerab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamming_Python View Post
    More likely, those facilities now being built at great expense in the Czech Republic, Romania, etc... would simply have been built on the basis of Russian facilities & technologies in Russia and the former-USSR region.
    They are not.

  7. #127
    Banned user Flamming_Python's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCorruptedOne View Post
    Searched the archives (at least in English), found no articles. All I found where the news regarding the same shield, just called differently. I believe the previous proposal, if there ever was one, doesn't compare to the current one (I doubt it was ever seriously considered). Using facilities and antiquated equipment of the long gone Soviet Union is not exactly economical. That is probably the most significant point. While it may seem more cost effective, current solutions would feature off the shelf solutions and would be exactly suitable for the operational needs, as opposed to modifying older equipment. Any former USSR and Russian equipment would need some significant modifications, which may not be quite so cheap in the long run.
    I don't know what the details were; I'm simply assuming. They could have went for a radical new system on the basis of S-500-esque projects for all I know. The Russian and USSR assets were very much substantial and potentially useful, particularly in terms of radar coverage. And as for Russian equipment; it already had anti-ballistic missile systems in the form of the S-300VM; which is a very effective system and more developments could have been built on its basis. Not to mention the naval vessels outfitted with such a ballistic missile defense system too.

    As for references, yeah they seem hard to come by; found some headlines here (can't read the articles though):
    http://www.militarynews.ru/esearch.a...geNo=30&AndOr=
    And another reference:
    http://en.rian.ru/onlinenews/20040207/39907154.html

  8. #128
    Senior Member kalerab's Avatar
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    Arenīt you mistaking it for that Azerbaijan radar site proposal from 2007?

  9. #129
    How's that Hopey Changey thing workin'? C.Puffs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamming_Python View Post
    I don't know what the details were; I'm simply assuming. They could have went for a radical new system on the basis of S-500-esque projects for all I know. The Russian and USSR assets were very much substantial and potentially useful, particularly in terms of radar coverage. And as for Russian equipment; it already had anti-ballistic missile systems in the form of the S-300VM; which is a very effective system and more developments could have been built on its basis. Not to mention the naval vessels outfitted with such a ballistic missile defense system too.

    As for references, yeah they seem hard to come by; found some headlines here (can't read the articles though):
    http://www.militarynews.ru/esearch.asp?swrd=missile shield&PageNo=30&AndOr=
    And another reference:
    http://en.rian.ru/onlinenews/20040207/39907154.html
    S-300VM is a terminal system more like SM-2 Block IV and PAC-3. It does not have exoatmospheric capability like THAAD, SM-3, and GBI.

  10. #130
    Banned user Flamming_Python's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalerab View Post
    Arenīt you mistaking it for that Azerbaijan radar site proposal from 2007?
    No I'm not, this was a completely different set of proposals originating around 2000/2001, I remember it well. Sometimes the idea still floats up; just very recently there was talk again of the US and Russia creating a common missile defense system.

  11. #131
    Banned user Flamming_Python's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C.Puffs View Post
    S-300VM is a terminal system more like SM-2 Block IV and PAC-3. It does not have exoatmospheric capability like THAAD, SM-3, and GBI.
    That's true. Though Russia does have some technology analogous to THAAD, etc... currently deployed around Moscow.

    Anyway I think you get the gist of what I'm saying. The proposals in question would have likely employed a mixture of both American and Russian technologies, both terminal and exo-atmospheric, both Soviet-era Radar sites and new facilities, etc... to get a working, effective system in operation. The exact details are unknown and not necessarily all that important; rest assured that if the 2 countries did decide on it, they would figure out a way to get it done.

  12. #132
    Banned user Flamming_Python's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_Wicked View Post
    I can't possibly fathom how an antimissile shield can be any threat to Russia. The Russians should pull their heads out of their ass and deal with their real problems, like, you know, corruption and ****ty economy and all that.
    Same thing like how Russian anti-missiles in Cuba would be a threat to the US; one way or the other. Try pulling your own head out of your ass first.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamming_Python View Post
    That's true. Though Russia does have some technology analogous to THAAD, etc... currently deployed around Moscow.
    Quote Originally Posted by C.Puffs View Post
    S-300VM is a terminal system more like SM-2 Block IV and PAC-3. It does not have exoatmospheric capability like THAAD, SM-3, and GBI.
    Actually the new missile for the S400 the (40N6?)
    Will have a ceiling of 185km, range of 400km and a speed of 12M.

  14. #134
    How's that Hopey Changey thing workin'? C.Puffs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamming_Python View Post
    That's true. Though Russia does have some technology analogous to THAAD, etc... currently deployed around Moscow.
    Such as? 123456

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grax View Post
    Actually the new missile for the S400 the (40N6?)
    Will have a ceiling of 185km and a speed of 12M.
    Been hearing about it for years (literally). Never heard that it's anywhere near deployment, or has even got to flight testing.

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