Vermont first state in nation to ban fracking for oil and gas

[Ought Six]

^^ Amen to that!

I'm certain that most regulars of this forum will dismiss the information in my link below as propaganda - so be it. But, I'd be damn well worried if one of these operations opened up near my home.....


http://www.marcellus-shale.us/

You do realize that the rock fracturing happens thousands and thousands of feet below any aquifers, right? The aquifers are sitting there because there are a bunch of impermeable layers under them. The fracking chemicals are being injected into layers that have *petroleum* in them naturally, which is far more toxic than any of the fracking chemicals. So long as the well casing is sound, there is no problem with fracking. There has been problems with the disposal of fracking chemicals by pumping them into the ground, but that is a separate issue which states have addressed with new standards and restrictions.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

What, like Calcium Chloride? Folks across the pond put it in their food, but I wouldn't. And as for isotope tracer...stable or unstable, depending on halflife?


http://fracfocus.org/chemical-use/wh...icals-are-used

I was thinking of Ammonium Persulphate which is one of the breakers that you would not seeping into the water table or biocides such as Glutaraldehyde, your company may not use them but others do.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

You do realize that the rock fracturing happens thousands and thousands of feet below any aquifers, right? The aquifers are sitting there because there are a bunch of impermeable layers under them. The fracking chemicals are being injected into layers that have *petroleum* in them naturally, which is far more toxic than any of the fracking chemicals. So long as the well casing is sound, there is no problem with fracking. There has been problems with the disposal of fracking chemicals by pumping them into the ground, but that is a separate issue which states have addressed with new standards and restrictions.

Lets use a smaller brush here! Its certainly evident that in some cases fluid has migrated into the water table during the process either by poor working practices on the surface or via faults in the shale and strata above. Disposal of fluids is not a separate issue at all as safe disposal is integral to the ongoing success and profitability of operations.

[Ought Six]

Lets use a smaller brush here! Its certainly evident that in some cases fluid has migrated into the water table during the process either by poor working practices on the surface or via faults in the shale and strata above. Disposal of fluids is not a separate issue at all as safe disposal is integral to the ongoing success and profitability of operations.

There is not a single case *ever* of fracking fluids migrating up through 'faults' to the surface or into aquifers -- period. There has been a single study. paid for by environmental groups, that said maybe, perhaps, under exactly the right conditions it could happen sometime. There is in fact not a single documented case, though there are literally tens of thousands of wells in operation using fracking techniques. Virtually every case where aquifer pollution has occurred; and those cases are incredibly rare; it turned out to be either a flaw in the well casing (as can happen with any sort of deep well, including conventional oil and gas wells), or improper injection techniques for the injection of waste fracking fluids into the ground (equally rare), or illegal surface dumping of chemicals (that was more common in the past, but has been cracked down upon). Deep fracking simply does not cause aquifer pollution. If you disagree, please provide evidence to support your claim that it does.

[Yves Adele Harlow]

Deep fracking simply does not cause aquifer pollution. If you disagree, please provide evidence to support your claim that it does.

As Mr Gently Benevolent mentioned, you've got to consider the process as a whole. You may well be correct about the actual fracking process, but, as my earlier link documents, there are a lot of different ways a fracking operation damages the surrounding environment. Proper disposal of byproducts and waste is only one of many worrisome areas.

The "halliburton loophole" is there for a reason. If this process is as harmless as you claim, why is this language even necessary?

Amwell Township, PA is a prime example of something going horribly awry. People and animals started to get sick shortly after the fracking started. These people are screwed and have little recourse to the law. Not only is their health shot, but their property is worthless as well.

As for your evidence, check out the recent Duke University study that shows that water supplies within 1000 yards of drilling pads have 17 times more methane in them than average. . . .

http://www.nicholas.duke.edu/cgc/Hyd...epaper2011.pdf

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

There is not a single case *ever* of fracking fluids migrating up through 'faults' to the surface or into aquifers -- period. There has been a single study. paid for by environmental groups, that said maybe, perhaps, under exactly the right conditions it could happen sometime. There is in fact not a single documented case, though there are literally tens of thousands of wells in operation using fracking techniques. Virtually every case where aquifer pollution has occurred; and those cases are incredibly rare; it turned out to be either a flaw in the well casing (as can happen with any sort of deep well, including conventional oil and gas wells), or improper injection techniques for the injection of waste fracking fluids into the ground (equally rare), or illegal surface dumping of chemicals (that was more common in the past, but has been cracked down upon). Deep fracking simply does not cause aquifer pollution. If you disagree, please provide evidence to support your claim that it does.

Now did you read my post? Or are you shooting from the hip with your eyes closed.

Originally Posted by Mr Gently Benevolent
Lets use a smaller brush here! Its certainly evident that in some cases fluid has migrated into the water table during the process either by poor working practices on the surface or via faults in the shale and strata above. Disposal of fluids is not a separate issue at all as safe disposal is integral to the ongoing success and profitability of operations.

Maybe your not familiar with the EPA study of the Pavillion. Wy area and the subsequent report which identified 2-BE, Squalene and Toluene in water samples but not nitrates which clearly indicates migration occurred sub-surface.

Report: http://www.epa.gov/region8/superfund...Dec-8-2011.pdf

Along with weather forecasts, supply, material input costs and price my finely tuned RSS feed filters bad news on fracking its one of my sell triggers.

[wotsnext]

From the UK.

Environment Agency head Lord Smith supports fracking expansion.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17987356

[JUNKHO]

Vermont gov. signs fracking ban into law

MONTPELIER, Vt., May 17 (UPI) -- The governor of Vermont has signed a bill that bans hydraulic fracturing as a means to extract gas from underground deposits

.

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2012/...0571337277432/

[Ought Six]

Now did you read my post? Or are you shooting from the hip with your eyes closed.

Did you read *my* post, or are you just shooting from the hip with your eyes closed? I answered your point about the 'faults' and 'strata'. If there is something I said you disagree with, feel free to tell us what it is.

[Ought Six]

Vermont gov. signs fracking ban into law


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[/LEFT]http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2012/...0571337277432/

Vermont is the only state to send an openly declared Socialist to the U.S. Congress. I would expecting something no less stupid from them.

[custodes]

I say Frack away. Sorry Mark Ruffalo who is a great Hulk but, making trouble in my town. I'm not sure if it is safe or not but, I won't live long enough to know. Our energy concerns are urgent now. In 20 years when it is gone maybe we will be in better shape.

[JUNKHO]

Vermont is the only state to send an openly declared Socialist to the U.S. Congress. I would expecting something no less stupid from them.

You had me up to "openly declared". I think MN has been sending "Socialists" to Congress for some time......as Democratic-Farm Labor types, or social democrats if you are so inclined.

[PeterRJG]

Edit: couldn't be arsed.

[CPL Trevoga]

That's cool. Why poison the water supply? Smart move. Let greedy folks in NY and PA **** up their communities first.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

There is in fact not a single documented case, though there are literally tens of thousands of wells in operation using fracking techniques. Virtually every case where aquifer pollution has occurred; and those cases are incredibly rare; it turned out to be either a flaw in the well casing (as can happen with any sort of deep well, including conventional oil and gas wells), or improper injection techniques for the injection of waste fracking fluids into the ground (equally rare), or illegal surface dumping of chemicals (that was more common in the past, but has been cracked down upon). Deep fracking simply does not cause aquifer pollution. If you disagree, please provide evidence to support your claim that it does.

So it has not occurred and occurred, so this is Verschränkung.