Remembers me to 1998 when we had a social-democrats/green coalition. The result was the most conservative reform package in the last decades.
Hollande cut the welfare and introduce pensions with 70? Never say never.
And you know what ?Originally Posted by Mackie
The upper class never got so much advantages than under Mitterand until Sarkozy
Basically they won more with him than with De Gaulle, Pompidou, Giscard d'Estaing and Chirac like exemption from taxes on art and cultural heritage
Sometimes Left is more rightist than the Right
Typical...
I think he means the election process, not the candidates.
I don't know much about Mr. Hollande or his platform, but I wish France congratulations on a peaceful transition and the best of luck.
I wish we had as high voter turnout as the French. looks like th French car more about their country than us.
The vote was more "Anyone But Sarkozy" than anything else.
The difference between left and right? The right does not make a secret of its policies and personal gains. Looking at the Belgian socialists, I've never seen a bigger bunch of criminals and false prophets.
Le Pen blaims Sarkozy, is Marine hoping that Hollande will be the next Mitterand who uses them against the Gaullists?
Now that it is all over I actually feel sorry for Sarkozy, not being re-elected must be the darkest day in someones life
I'm being self-righteous for disagreeing with Hollande's ideas and preferring Sarkozy on his stead? And that I'm German plays a role in there?
Now that's what I would call a self-righteous comment...
Oh well. It's kind of funny to be told off by someone who admits to not knowing - and not even caring about - Hollande's proposals.
I'm aware of what "more and more economists say" but that doesn't have to make their opinion any righter to my judgement. The idea a common weal could flourish on tick defies macro-economic logic and quite simple math. History itself teaches us that overindebted nations always have to fall only to resurrect and tread the same doomed paths again - for my part I would like this circle broken open and I'm convinced less egocentricity and more awareness of the expectable plight of future generations would be the key.
What these experts and Hollande hope for is that stimuli paid with borrowed money will boost the economy, create more jobs, increase domestic demand and that this circle will keep itself alive somehow. Admittely it can pay off, but most of the time in recent history it has not for it means to ignore the countless variables that can shoot down the idea. I'm speaking of variables such as the markets' inherent momentum and their texture that is being reshaped by the crisis beyond the grasp of how our leaders dream it to be. I'm speaking of the distrust between market participants who hesitate to trade with each other or give credits even after the government has filled their pockets with fresh money. I'm speaking of the consumer's reluctance to spend their pay raises as supposed to make the stimuli package work and all the other intricacies of economic interactions.
To me eyes it seems like a game of roulette and governments going "all in" on the option of success even though they cannot know any more than the very player at the casino table.
Forgive me that I brought up Germany as an example. I didn't mean to show off or something, but just to bring an example of what kind of policies I was referring to. Some of Germany's federal states fare so well that they're already on the path of repaying their own debts. Actually they fare so well that they help - well, not quite voluntarily - to finance the other states.
They could only accomplish this feat by budgetary discipline.
They neither like the idea of being held accountable for the others' liabilities, by the way. Euro-Bonds are a gross violation of the treaties agreed upon by all members of the Eurozone and they would only delay the inevitable. Neither France nor Germany should suffer the communitarisation of debts which they didn't pile up and which they were said they'd never be held liable for. Not only would that be unjust but also most unwise. It'd be like paying truckloads of painkillers for a patient who'd need surgery instead of mere medicine.
Mmmmmnot being re-elected must be the darkest day in someones life
Wait the judges go after his sorry ass now he is not under presidential immunity
He has a lot to answer (Karachi affair, Bettancourt affair, Kadaffi affair)
Even if justice deems him as innocent, he will have some sweating months
Hollande was handed the Rights head on a plate by Sarkozy himself. Trying to steal folks from the FN just back fired badly. As said before, he lost the centrist vote because he ****ed around with the FN. Right now as we speak, Patrick Buisson the *right winger* among Sarkozys team is being chewed by a couple of ministers and MPs (including Juppe).
The Right what? Man you cannot come in the open with such arguments. Politicians will be politicians. Them being Socialist or not changes little. Once upon a time people could see Bernard Tapie with Tonton. I mean it was the epitome of opportunism. Chirac with his Middle Eastern suitcases, African suitcases etc.
Actually I declare Hollande the luckiest machiavellian incompetent ever.
Again...Hollande has, as per the 2012 budget, already a 9 billion free ride. It is nothing and yet everything. France just borrowed 6.3 billion days before the election.Why did it so, while the budget was set with a possible surplus? To simply avoid TAXING. Sarkozy, just like Mitterrand has those little habits.
Now on a last ressort, Hollande has not yet submitted a budget, so how do you know what he will do?
Apart from the Industrial Savings carnet and the Investment Bank (which coincidentally France has at least in rudimentary form after it nationalized Dexia under the CDC and BP) I do not see where Hollande is going to pop the lid. Maybe were those 60 K public servants the reason of this long post?
Muck
Never said thatI'm aware of what "more and more economists say" but that doesn't have to make their opinion any righter to my judgement.
However the medicine taken until now by several countries showed to be more poisonous to their economies than helping
The Greek, Italian, Spanish and ultimately UK one (and the last one has implemented a conservative policy way before the others) are hurt heavily
If you are taking history as example i can reverse your sentence : nowhere during history stringent economical decisions (either from within or imposed by foreign structures like the IMF) helped any country concerned to stand up rapidly
Quite the contrary in fact : all the countries that exited the IMF stringency motto fared better than their neighbors (look at the Asiatic Dragons, all were hit hard by the asiatic crisis, all said to gtfo to IMF, all are doing better.)
Argentina tried a rigorist budget at the beginning, lost a lot of monnetary "blood", then changed his mind and magicaly just after got better
You get some good points here. However i ll emphasize on that idea of trust/distrustt has not for it means to ignore the countless variables that can shoot down the idea. I'm speaking of variables such as the markets' inherent momentum and their texture that is being reshaped by the crisis beyond the grasp of how our leaders dream it to be. I'm speaking of the distrust between market participants who hesitate to trade with each other or give credits even after the government has filled their pockets with fresh money. I'm speaking of the consumer's reluctance to spend their pay raises as supposed to make the stimuli package work and all the other intricacies of economic interactions.
First of all that damn "market" was borrowed with some of our money (yes ours as taxpayers). Had our govs have had more balls, they would enforce a minimum of forced market activity to sustain the economy. Because as it goes now, banks are sitting on huge amount of our monney (the billions that helped them out of the subprime pit) but do not reinject them in the economy. That kills us too
And as you said this is a confidence problem : if cash is not circulating, people will keep it for bad days, making the wound festering a bit more
Now to come back to Germany (because i was half joking half serious about the slef righteousness thingy, ya know
Germany is often cited as an example forgetting several things
I know that you won't agree but :
You had a conjonctural re-structuration done during the re-unification
Basically it was "we reunite but every german has to pay"
How many countries can build up their economical structure on such kind of events : none anymore in Europe; We are bond to work with our mature systems and chagne them tiny bit by tiny bit (or you'll have civilian unrests)
Second point is that you built up your economical sucess within the eurozone. You can grant that at least. Yes it is french, spanish, italian customers that loaned money to buy german goods
You have now an easy time to point on people that helped your economy reach the point where it is
Check now the facts, and see how it gonna hurt your industry now that customer confidence is dead in Europe
And finally i was also half serious, half joking about your protestant side
But you cannot copy paste German mentality on others countries
I ll take a simple example
The lowest wages (the bulk of the salaries) are lower in Germany than in France
However in Germany you have also lower prices than here. So the quality of life is averagely (for the lower classes) the same in both countries (and maybe slightly better in Germany) even if the average lowest salaries in France are 10% higher than in Germany
Now imagine that we do like you are proposing i.e reducing the wages by 10-15% : how do you think it will end here ??
Second example is your landers. You are right, some of yours are dong well. However they had a structuraly healthy economical basis. Talk me now about the others ones that are not doing so well
Life is not either white or black even in the economical area. And the German system cannot be transposed as such everywhere else in Europe. But by reading some of you (no offence here) it should be and everything would be solved like with a magic wand.
Obama invites Hollande to White House
President Barack Obama invited French president-elect Francois Hollande to the White House later this month, expressing hope the pair would work "closely," a spokesman said Sunday. http://www.alternet.org/rss/breaking...o_white_house/
...slurp slurp slurpThe US president is due to host the leaders of the Group of Eight rich nation's club at his Camp David retreat in Maryland between May 18-19, followed by the NATO transatlantic alliance summit in Chicago on May 20-21.
In his call to Hollande, Obama "proposed that they meet beforehand at the White House" for a bilateral meeting, Carney said.
Yes you did. Here you go:
I don't see what there is to disapprove of? France is one of America's most important allies, and a key participant in NATO. He would and should invite whomever won the French presidency ahead of the NATO summit....slurp slurp slurp
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